Karaoke Forums

I do two shows now. I used to do three. The two I've done at my home bar for 2.5 years, the third was a Sat. show I picked up last summer and lost right before Christmas.

The reason I'm not doing the third gig anymore is simple. He was paying me almost double what he'd paid any other host in the past, and through Oct. he was banking, so it was never an issue. Around Thanksgiving things started to slide attendance wise at this show (economy, the looming holidays, and some personal issues that the owners had, and a rude bartender). One night in Dec. we had a heavy snow (we had quite a few, but this night in particular was the first of the many). I called the bar and suggested we cancel for the evening because I had a feeling I was going to be making more than the owner and bartenders combined. Conditions were bad. I was told they wanted me to come in because a birthday party was coming and they wanted to sing karaoke (the birthday girl is a big fan of my shows). I packed up my equipment from my home bar, set up at this other place, ran for three hours, and there were only about three people left in the bar. I asked if he wouldn't mind if I shut down early and he said 'No, that's fine, I'll just pay you x amount'. The x amount was half what I normally make for a weekend gig, and I said, 'Yeah, that's not going to work for me'. Owner said, we'll I can't really afford karaoke anymore, and I said cool, and after the bartender tried to pay me x, I said the owner already pulled the plug, square up and I'll be on my way. That was it. I packed up and haven't worked a night at that bar since.

My home bar shows are kicking. I've never 'lost' a gig before, but three nights a week coupled with my day job was really taking a toll, so I'm actually happy that I have my Saturdays back. Never really had a problem with the decision.

I had a call a while back from a bar wanting to start karaoke up, and they asked if I was available on Sats to do it. I said I was booked and gave them the name and number of a supposed friend of mine (who used to be the KJ at the aforementiond place, until he got fired). He was a house boy (KJ using house equipment). He's since put together a modest system and I knew he was looking for a gig, so I turned him on to it. He's been there a couple of months.

I got a call from a mutual friend of ours (an avid singer) last week, and she said that this guy had told her that I was fired from the other gig because I got drunk at one of my shows and 'manhandled' a female patron. I explained to her that it was simply a matter of finances and there was no bad blood and I hadn't heard that story from anyone (and I still frequent the bar as I shoot a dart team out of there). I confronted my 'friend' and his girlfriend got very defensive and pretty much admitted that they'd shared the BS story, but that they told people it was only an unsubstantiated rumor. Trust me, I've manhandled many a woman, but only with prior consent. You other KJs know how the girls can be.

I told my 'friend' that if I heard anymore of the BS that things were going to go south for them pretty quick, as my reputation on the circuit is important to me. He actually showed up at my gig on Wed. to smooth things over. He implicated the birthday girl (mentioned above) and her friend, and the funny thing is, birthday girl was at the gig when he was telling me this. I suggested we get her so she could verify his story, and he said he was in a hurry and had to go. Nothing more has been said.

I know this guys intent was merely to attract some of my crowd to his show, what came out of this was that he's always held a grudge because I was doing shows at his old venue (where he and his girl had been for two years before they got fired (for sloppy rotation and playing favorites)). I was offered the gig, and had no idea he had lingering ties to it. I'd even had him fill in for me on a couple of nights.

Have any of you ever had slander issues, or do you simply ignore them.

When I first started at one of my gigs, I found out that the previous KJ had left because the owner "tried to kill him". I had no previous knowledge of the place except that they had had karaoke on and off over the last few years with various hosts. When I asked about it further, I got vague answers and I let it go at that, but was naturally cautious. I now know that the KJ must have done something to drive the owner that far, if, in fact, that's what actually happened.
Well, it couldn't have been too bad since said KJ appeared at one of my shows not too long after I took over.
At the end of the night, while packing up, I found a slip with a note on it from this KJ. He stated " (his name) (his KJ business neam) I own my music - all of it. I don't want to hear one more word about me or my business or it will be reported! (his phone number).
Well I took it to mean that obviously someone was telling him that I was somehow accusing him of being a pirate and that he was also accusing me of same.
I immediately called him up. He sounded surprised that I actually called. I guess he thought I would be afraid that he would "report" me and didn't expect a call.
I confronted the issue head on and told him that I had no idea about his business, had never been to one of his shows, and since I've never seen his library, I certainly could not accuse him of piracy.
I told him that whoever told him that I was saying this was an out and out liar and told him to consider the source(without knowing who it was- didn't have to because it's obvious the person's a liar).
I never asked him who it was and told him flat out that I didn't care to know as I refuse to get caught up in the rumour mill and carry on a he said / she said argument. I just told him that I run my business the way I run it and I don't feel it's necessary to cut someone else up. I also told him that he was more than welcome at my shows and if I had anything to say, it would be to his face as that's how I operate.
As for accusing me of piracy, I told him that if he felt I didn't own my music to please go ahead and report it, though I'm not sure who he would report it to (he seemed to think that he had to pay the SOCAN fees so obviously he had NO clue of what was what).
That ended it right there, and he attended several more of my shows with me welcoming him very publicly (to show whoever it was that their trouble making didn't work) before he moved away to another city.
As for the rumour starting trouble makers, I'm not exactly sure who they are, but they still attend my show as I have had the same crowd (and then some!) from day one. I haven't heard anything more, nor do I expect to.
Even if I did, I would probably handle it in a similar way, confronting the person who it affects directly, thereby quashing all rumours.
If it's silly stuff, I will just ignore it comepletely.
Personally, I could care less, but in this case, the KJ was obviously disturbed by it.

Slander suits usually never get anywhere, but the best bet is not to put yourself in a position to allow that to happen in the first place.

CroakDog said:


This is simply asking for it. First of all, don't blame it on "the girls." Even with "prior consent"... did you ask them if you could manhandle them (the prior consent) or do they simply walk up and offer? These would be the only two options and neither one is really helping what should be professional conduct (while you're being paid to do something other than manhandle anything). I don't believe you were hired there as a "paid or professional manhandler" with or without permission.

So by your own admission, your conduct has been out of line --whether or not you had "permission"-- this is plenty of fuel for any kind of "slanderous talk" regarding how you operate. You know how stories can change: he said, she said, they said and pretty soon you're not just "manhandling with permission" but you've become a sexual predator using your "job" as a cover to carry on your taking advantage of (and victimizing) by the groping of drunk and obviously impaired women.

And if you're known to drink while you're working then just pour a little gasoline on that slander fire and it will become harder for you to dispell any myths regarding your conduct and it won't matter who it comes from...
------------------------------------
Judge: "Mr. Croakdog, do you manhandle women while you're entertaining?"

Croakdog: "Only with permission your honor, you know how the girls can be."

Judge: "Mr. Croakdog, would that be the drinking female patrons?"

Croakdog: "Why yes, I never manhandle the drinking male patrons."

Judge: "So let me get this straight, you only manhandle the drinking female patrons with prior consent?"
-------------------------------------

The rumor mill can only function if you give it something to work with or someone else can slightly twist reality to their advantage.

Personally, I don't drink while I'm working. Any person coming up with a story saying I was drunk and doing anything inappropriate would be laughed off by anyone who comes to my shows... It's a joke that if you see me with a drink, you better have a camera, because you will probably never see it again. But that's me, it may not be you.

I'm not making judgements on your conduct, you're over 21 and free to do what you want but it's about what others perceive to be true, not what really is true. And the more you blur that line, the easier it is for them to work against you.

I think his statement was meant to be taken a little more tongue in cheek, not literally.

I understand that. My point is that almost anything you do at a job (especially in this business) can be twisted around, no matter the innocence or the real intent so it requires that little extra caution.

Most (drinking) patrons are NOT willing to accept responsibility for their own actions if they can push them off on someone else. How many times has a singer come up --after picking a really bad version of a song they can't sing anyway and turned around and blamed it on the KJ as "that's not the song I wanted!" The KJ didn't pick it, THEY did...

Bar owners included. Some owners can't find it within themselves to fire a KJ that's not working out, they wait and wait and wait until there is so much resentment (within themselves) that they blow up, finally fire the KJ and then blame it on the KJ to save face. In this case, the KJ doesn't have a chance because they never see it coming.... or if they do, they ignore/avoid it.

Thanks diafel. Yes that was me playing. I have girls coming up to me all the time wanting all kinds of affection. I do not, as a rule, make a scene with them. I usually smile sheepishly, and brush them off as lightly as I can.

This KJ's intent was to dip into my crowd, it had nothing to do with my conduct. I've been doing these shows in these parts for 2.5+ years now, and have always managed to stay out of the theatre. My point here (and it wouldn't have been brought up if I thought I'd done something to spur it on), was that this KJ made some statements that could have a negative affect on my reputation. To me this is slander. It's not rumor, but ill intentions from one professional to another. Drunks talk, and yes most of what I hear I let roll off my back. When it comes from another in the field, it's a step above in my book.

My question is, has anyone dealt with this sort of thing, and what was the resolution?

CroakDog,

Please don't take my comments as any kind of judgement, I know exactly what you're talking about. There are plenty of people happy to kid around and I'm all for it. It certainly makes for a more interesting evening albeit all in fun.

And to answer your question, Yes. I have had others "stretch the truth" as far as it can go to try to take a job from me or at the least destroy the job I had. And, you're right again; you have to let it roll off. A few years ago, (like seven) I had an older man in his late 60's that would come in as a regular. He had the hots for another (and younger, 40-ish) woman that was also a regular.

One night, she got tipsy and was doing the "bump-n-grind" thing while someone was rapping "baby got back" and he flipped his lid apparently. The following week, my wife was filling in for me while I was at a private party and this joker has some other old guy (like in his 70's or early 80's) walk up to a waitress and give her $5 to hand my wife a note and disappeared. The waitress had never seen him before or after.

Nonetheless, the note was an "anonymous friend type of letter" typed and not signed, accusing me of some type of sordid affair with the woman the week before.

He didn't get the reaction he expected because the following week he was back, and so was she -- and so was my wife. This time I rapped "baby got back" and both the woman and my wife were doing the bump-n-grind on me at the same time...

Haven't seen him since....

tee hee....

Hmmm, Yes, sorta, kinda...? Same type of thing different story. Just let it run off your back and into the gutter. Doesn't do any good to actually bring suit or anything unless you're under the gun of a lawsuit yourself.

Here's my (ongoing) incident:

I worked for a KJ who needed someone to run a Tuesday night at Bar B while he ran one at Bar A on Tuesdays and Fridays. I'd run shows for him in the past and I liked Bar B, even thought Bar A was my regular haunt, so I spend Tuesdays working the board at Bar B and Friday hanging out at Bar A.

This ran fine for a few months but Bar A's owner was getting upset over volume control at Bar A and the KJ was taking heat for it. The KJ was opening his own bar in the near future and he wasn't happy with Bar A's owner either. One Tuesday the KJ came walking into Bar B all happy that he had just quit Bar A.

Now, I'm a bit hacked that there is no karaoke at Bar A any longer. I have equipment to run it and a friend who I helped rip his library to disk who is willing to share the workload with me and use his music for the gig. I call Bar A on Friday morning and ask them if they and the KJ has kissed and made up and who was running Karaoke that night. I was told the KJ wasn't *ever* going to work there again and was asked my name. When I mentioned my name the owner got excited and said we've been looking for your number and can I do tonight.

Well this is my regular gig now and ever since then the KJ has had it in for me. First it was a letter written to all the regulars and such telling them how I stole the show from him, how I broke a non-compete agreement, how the owner and I colluded to have him outed, how I sabotaged his equipment while using it, how I stole music from him, how I play favorites with the ladies and how they complain about me. It continues to this day with him telling singers random things about me.

He's threatened to sue me for damages from a lost show, a show he quit, and continues to tell people how I stole music from him. When asked why I don't have all the same songs he does he gives them "Well he didn't have long enough to copy it all". It annoys me, but unless he's going to actually get an attorney to come after me, it's just silliness I have to ignore/endure. People will believe what they want and I'm no longer going to defend myself. I did at first but it's pointless. I'll stick with a "That's what he thinks. Can't change his mind, don't care to."

Funny thing is some folks come in, spread around the gossip and when I tell them "Eh, so I heard." they say "Yeah. Why should you get upset? It's just Karaoke." and I tell them the KJ has every right to be upset, it's his business and livelihood. While you folks enjoy the gossip you're spreading rumors about people who are working hard for your entertainment. I understand the KJ's position, but even he knows it's not true. What he's lashing out at, I don't know but if it makes him feel more secure, so be it.

Yeah, I suppose in time all things come out in the laundry. I just try so hard to stay out of drama (makes my life a lot easier), that it shocks me when I'm pulled in for any reason. I like to incite posters on this forum once in a while, but hey, everyone needs an outlet!!

If it's really bothersome for you and you're tired of it, you might do well to invest in a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter for you.
Doesn't mean he will, but you also don't have to sue if doesn't care to heed the warning in the letter. But you never know. It just may scare the bejeesus out of him enough to shut him up permanently.
If it was me, and it went on for any length of time, I would definitely draft one and send it out, just to get him to leave me alone.
Just a thought.....

For whatever it's worth, consider the following theory based upon years of hearing "who did what to whom" in the local KJ arena.

A lot of "who a KJ is" (ego) is tied into his/her show(s) - how many they have and the success of each.

Different audiences like different shows.

Most people, it seems, like particular shows based upon the KJ's personality more than any other factor

Some Kj's never scout out "new territory", they try to get jobs at venues with existing shows, and don't care if they are offered that existing show rather than an additional night

The owners simply look at the bottom line and will try change KJ's if they believe that might help the bottom line. I lost a virtually new job to a kj who found out about it and convinced the owner for $50 more a gig, he would double the crowd. That growth never happened.

There is a myriad of factors that bring owners to changing KJ's. And when a KJ loses a show, it is usually a crush to their ego and a negative on their personal finances. Any straw that the KJ on the losing end can grasp will be grabbed. So if it is said that someone slandered the "losing" KJ, that person is likely to believe that story. In fact, many want to believe such a story