Karaoke Forums

...and that's pretty much where I am at in my process of becoming a KJ as of right now. I pretty much woke up one morning, not so long ago, and realized that this would probably be a fantastic profession for me to get into. In addition, my father is a bar manager for a VFW club close by, and has already told me he would hire me one night a week. A good place for me to jump off from I think.

So after reading through countless forum topics last night, I don't want to come off as the kid who's been to a few Karaoke shows and thinks he can do it without knowing what he's getting into. If anything, it's all a little more overwhelming than I anticipated, mainly because I have zero experience using sound equipment, in general. I'm really intent on doing a LOT of research before I jump into anything here...I don't want to have a mediocre show, I want to be professional and a benefit to bar owners (hopefully).

I guess what I really haven't seen in the forums, and what I'd like to pose to the Karaoke gods here, is "What's the best way to get started in the KJ business?" What is some good starter equipment to start with, how much music should I have from the get-go, how do I know the difference between good speakers and bad speakers, and how big should said speakers be, and how many do I need depending on what size rooms I'm using? (I really am not sure whether to post questions like that here or in the technical forum, but I guess the main question is "How do I begin?")

I plan on running karaoke from my laptop (recently purchased, good quality, w/out getting into all the specs). So also, what software might you reccommend to get started?

Honestly, one of you more experienced KJ's out there should really consider either writing a book on the subject or creating a website dedicated specifically to the subject, because I have found no "really good" how to's out there with some specific, pertinent information...learned more sifting through the forums last night than I have with any google search result I tried.

OK, thats all for now, hope to hear some great ideas from you all...

-Dappa

I posted this in an older thread. I hope it helps:



DO IT RIGHT.

Unfortunately, MOST straight DJ setups are just not up to snuff for karaoke.

Remembering that vocals are the king is important. Vocal and music effects include Echo, Delay, Digital Keychange (not just pitch control) for music, and if you're smart, vocals as well. Separate treble and bass controls for each mic, as well as overall EQ. Three-way speakers would be better.

Until you know your regulars, there is no such thing as "setting up" sound. Each singer is different, and must be mixed on the fly.

Figure out a rotation system, and stick with it! Your singers will know if they're getting skipped or others are jumping in- it will cost you.

New singers must be made comfortable, and non-singers must be entertained and feel welcome as well. This means that it's a good idea to mingle and greet people- make a bit of small talk- all while you are working.

I strongly advise against hiding in a booth or behind a facade. Standing in front or to the side of your equipment will add accessibility- and you'll need it.

SuperCore and Sweet Georgia Brown for starter music, as well as other smaller sets like All Hits, Dangerous, Music Maestro Doo-Wop Club, and some other genre related sets. DO NOT spend a million dollars on music to start out. Use the less expensive sets above to get a feeling for what YOUR singers like, THEN upgrade. Don't forget our Latin, Korean (big in my area) and other intertnational singers.

Since you wish to be digital (PC) based, keep in mind that many singers prefer to use their own discs. You may wish to carry a player as well. If you do, make sure that you can mix effects with it as well ( many players come with some on-board effects. Not great, but better than nothing.).


When making your books, I would suggest using the manufacturers' disc numbers as references. Using your own code ( like disc 1047A or such) will make your books virtually useless to experienced singers. They need to know what version the song is, as they have preferences.

Which reminds me. Choosing music based on your own taste or by manufacturer is worthless. The "best" music and versions are those most popular with your singers.

A good Karaoke Host ( as opposed to a "KJ") has a completely different mindset than a DJ. We are not stars- we are star-MAKERS. When our ego kicks in, we get kicked out.

You like to sing a lot? Your show isn't the place. They don't come to hear you. If you have to stretch a short rotation that's fine, but once it builds, bow out.

Good Luck!!!

PS: Backup, Redundancy, Backup!
__

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I disagree with the lesser quality tracks to start out with.
I would recommend a base of $5k to get everything from PA to music to accesseries - ie books, slips, pens, extra cords, etc.

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Here's my $.02-

Since you are just starting out with little or no experiance running audio equipment I would suggest starting out with a simple set up that can be ADDED to later.
Personally I use a powered mixer ( all inclusive amp mixer/effects/ compressor) from YAMAHA emx512c. The powered mixer system is LIGHT WEIGHT and easy to set up and transport. This will also have enough power for 90% of the rooms you may play in. ( Yamaha is just one brand name -look also at PEAVEY /MACKIE / CARVIN) You can then add some matching 15" speakers. I suggest you not skimp on the speakers and get some wooded cabinets like YAMAHA SV115 or a PEAVEY sp5G. These speakers again will give you enough oomph and bass to start out with ( adding a subwoofer late is always an option) . Pick up a few microphones and some cables and you are all set from an audio standpoint.

Again this is a simple yet effective set up to start out with. You may also want to consider POWERED SPEAKERS and a non powered mixer or PASSIVE speakers and a seperate amp and mixer combo. Many choices --WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET %$$$$

Budget is a consideration, obviously, and you sure don't want to make a mistake and throw good money after bad by not investing smartly to begin with. (It is amazing the number of people who get all gung-ho about getting into the business and purchase equipment initially that is really not worth the plastic it sits in ... and they end up having to keep it because it isn't worth anything as far as resale price...

For ease of transport, which may become a consideration for you if you have a lot of show offers and one system which you carry with you, consider powered speakers, a DJ rack that will be the base for your laptop, and a decent mixing board, preferably one with built-in effects because nobody wants to sing 'dry.'

If you invest in larger speakers (15") you can manipulate those through the board to provide enough of a base sound. You can, however, also go with 12" speakers (like the Mackie SM350s I use, available used for under $500 each) and a 15" sub (about $750). Definitely enough sound for a medium size room. I have the big brothers to the SM350s (the SM450s) which provide enough sound for anything I've done yet, including huge college gymnasiums. Powered speakers means you don't have to have an amplifier on board...weight considration.

I'm not saying Mackie makes the only good powered speakers; JBL makes some great ones, too, and they may be a little less expensive. I just happened into the Mackies I have for very good prices. Watch Craigslist in your area for speakers, speaker stands, DJ rack, etc., especially now (bad economy fallout).

As far as hosting software, there are many options; I use MTU Hoster because I can still offer to have people bring in their own CDGs and I can play them for them; other software means you have to carry a CDG player with you if you wish to accommodate singers who want to sing off their own discs. All the software available offer pros and cons; I just like Hoster for the player option, and the fact that it creates your 'book' once your last CDG is ripped to the harddrive (another big bonus). Hoster is proprietary - it rips to a .kma format which, of course, doesn't transfer easily (I think it can be done - conversion, I mean)...but I don't plan on making any big changes in the future anyway - if anything, I'll get OUT of karaoke instead of deeper into it.

If weight and number of pieces is not a consideration for you, then by all means go with a mixer, an amplifier (or two with crossover if you go with subwoofer later), and passive speakers (which are cheaper). Fewer cords but more pieces and weight.

My husband and I are professional singers by vocation and avocation and would be happy to establish PM with you to answer questions. Please feel free.

PS: When I went to purchase my very first gear setup (in 1997) I decided that in the interest of offering as many options as possible, my setup would be adequate to support a band as well as karaoke. I have never been underpowered or unable to take a gig because of the size of the venue. Just a consideration. Better to have too much power than not enough.

K

The 350's are 10", the 450's are 12".

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dappa --there is just some decisions you'll need to make UPFRONT
BUDGET--how much do you want or HAVE to invest to START
Which avenue do you want to go down?
PASSIVE SPEAKERS
OR
POWERED SPEAKERS
Each has its own pros and cons.

Once you make those decisions ..you're on your way

dappadave said:


Might be some help or support groups for you..... RUN AWAY!

(Looks what it's done to lonnie!)

I would not buy a 15" subwoofer for $750 when I can get an 18" carvin for $610 delivered to my front door!

Lon, I have kept track of my purchases and I bought a few cables early on that I wish I hadn't, other than that I've bought some pretty good stuff. Most everything is high end with perhaps the exception of my Behringer 215s which along with my sub offer plenty of oomph and sound pretty choice to me. My point being, I've spent about $3000. I am now up to 2500 unique (different) songs. I believe a starter can do for less than $5000 but if I were to do it all over again and was going to spend $5000 instead of $3000, my mains would be upgraded and I would have floor monitors and then spend the extra $500 or whatever on music. At some point, those Behringers might become my floor monitors.

Sure they can, but I 'recommend' $5k. You can always go cheaper. That is just a good starting point to work with.

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I just opted to go all Mackie...Very happy with it. Not saying anyone else has to...or that is the only brand. Since I have a Mackie board and Mackie speakers, figured it'd be best to go Mackie with the sub. Like I said in my first post, there are tons of other choices. Only saying what I have, not trying to convince anyone else. As it stands, I have a TON of other equipment and what I was saying is if the new KJ wants to go active, it's probably less of a load. Sub does make it a bit heavier but you can get away with smaller speakers if you opt for a sub.

I have cables that I bought back in 1997 that are still very functional - one thing you really need to spend the dough on that's worth it.


Yes, Lonnie, thanks for the konk on the head about the size of the SM350s and SM450s - been a rough week!

These are all excellent suggestions, and are spot on.

Let me add that ebay and craigslist are your friends. I have picked up complete Sound Choice brick sets and original DKs used. Sure, you may end up with some scratched disks, but for the price I've paid (as little as $3 a disk in some cases), its well worth it.

Let me also add, that a computer is the way to go. I use compuhost software which has an excellent "filler" deck as well as karaoke player. Music automatically fades from track to track... leaving you free to socialise like Joe is telling you. A lot of KJs don't use "filler music" and I believe that is a mistake. I have a playlist of popular current songs, oldiesn and dance. I have all songs on karaoke, and many times these will act as subliminal suggestions to what people might want to sing. A!lso, this way, there is no "dead air" while one singer leaves and another comes up, and helps when things don't always go smoothly.

I frequently hear people singing along with my filler music when I fade to karaoke. They're having a good time!

One regular singer put it to me this way, "your a KJ with a DJ mind."

Trust me, after a two hours, put in the cupid shuffle and get people out of their seats for a song! Singers and non-singers alike can participate...

When messing with disks you have to get the singer (frequently drunk), to find a disk and song number (i.e. sc8740 12), get it to you so you can READ it, and you have to find it in a timely manner. God help you if you ever misfile a disk... especially a popular one. Its a stresser!

With disks, it is imperative you keep your book up to date, with a computer, not so much. I spend a lot of time scouring the net for a disk bargin, and update frequently. It costs a lot of money to reprint 6 books, and I only do it about once every six months.

Most of the time, people just ask me if I have the song. It takes two seconds to find it with the "search as you type" feature of the software. "Yeah, I got it, what's your name? You're in" Done.

Now, some folks will tell you that because of compression the music doesn't sound as good. They're right, it doesn't. However, I use a 75% variable compression bit rate (which will be an option on your hosting software), and it still rocks. The sound loss is nominal, and the convience MORE than compensates for the minor sound loss.

You can get a great laptop with an S-Video output for less then $900, and if you use my suggestion for finding music, you'll save more than enough money to pay for it.

Let me agree with Joe here... GET AN A/B SWITCH and put a regular karaoke player in your rig. Make sure that you have the type that will allow you to change the volume in the player, other wise you'll have to adjust your music mix drastically everytime you switch between the computer and player.

IMHO a laptop is way better than a rig computer. Otherwise, everytime you make modifications, add songs, etc, you'll have to bring in the rig and hook it up. With a laptop, you can sit on the couch and watch TV while you work. But hey, that's just me.

Keep an eye an ear open for used equipment. I picked up a pair of Yamaha Club 15" speakers (normally $700 a pair), for $225 bucks. The KJ was older and could't
lift them on the stands anymore. He tried out so 15" pevys and liked
them. We were just talking about it, and I said, "Well who you selling the Yamaha's to?" Well, it was ME!

Then I turned around and sold the speakers I was using to one of my bar owners for $150 for his garage band.

My point is, be active in the karaoke scene in your area. Activity breeds activity, and things will begin to happen if your active in the scene.

Before I became a KJ, I could walk into just about any karaoke bar in my area, and know just about everyone in there. This will pay off big time once you start your business.

I would agree with bowing out once the rotation gets larger is correct as a general rule. However, consider this: A DJ plays his songs to "work the crowd" and entertain them, you can't help what people want to sing. Its a crap shoot. You may have five singers in a row who have sang sad, sappy, slow songs. You look out at the bar and the people are ready to commit suicide! You think you'll skip your turn becuase the rotation is long, but you look at the next song coming up and its "Whiskey Lullaby".. Arrgh! What do you do?

Well, now would be a could time to pull out a crowd pleaser and rock the house a bit. How well you can pull this off depends on your showman skills... you aren't there as the "entertainer" but its is your job to entertain.

Now, don't hog the spotlight. Grab one of your good singer (a pretty girl?? Or one of the popular guys or gals) and do a rock'in duet!

I have a few standards that I do: Love Shack, Save a horse ride a cowboy, Grease Megamix, Boondocks, etc. You get the idea. Pick something that will get people hopping, and share the spotlight with a good singer.

If the applause is loud at the end, you're doing it right... Keep doing it. If now, step back and figure out why and adjust. This also works for you in that people will see that you do duets, and will ask you to sing with them. Have a good time with it, and most likely, everyone else will too. But, once again, that's the showmanship part comes in.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Now you can see why no one has written the official "Guide to Karaoke" as you suggested. No two KJ's (or Karaoke Hosts in Joe's case) do it the same way. We all have different backgrounds and therefore different strengths and weaknesses. Use your strengths.

My advice: would be to get some equipment...any equipment and play a few gigs and then do some serious shopping once you understand how the whole thing works. Be prepared to sing but don't sing if you don't have to. Make sure your rotation is absolutely fair or they will throw beer bottles at your head (and not even full ones.) The bar owner is only interested in his Z tape (gross sales at the end of the night) so keep that in mind. Thus endeth my advice.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Me being the lone maverick DJ on this board (I just like singing), I have patterned my DJ stuff after a friends KJ outfit. Mackie Mixer/Amp, Sonic speakers + extra monitors in case I do a Karaoke show, ProDJ 200 CD player plus a RSQ karaoke player which doubles as a back up CD player. All on here have given great points. Keep your initial set-up simple and build on that when you decide to expand. Don't forget the monitor for the singers.

Great suggestions per your post, Karen. However, I must give one caveat to the above. Though you CAN play discs using the PC, it's not really a good a idea. PC hard drives are not made for the rugged use of a karaoke show, and may die on you sooner than later.


My .02 on the speakers. EV (Electro-Voice) speakers are, IMHO, amazing. They actually sound as good as another MFRs. speaker the next size up. ( 12" sound like 15s, 15" sound like 18s, etc...) and light weight. Many have built in limiters as well.
This is subjective of course. Others like other speakers.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe: I may play 15 discs a month over 2-3 shows a week. I'm not concerned. We use a PC shuttle and the drive is new. In the horrid event that I have to, we still have a few machines floating around the house here...but the convenience of a temp rip for a singer's own disc is a real big benefit for me.

they also may not be able to handle copy protected discs...

It's far easier to just have a player in your setup. Some are as cheap as $100!

Let me also point out that using someone else's disks is like sleeping around... you don't know where those disks have been! There's no way I'm putting it MY disk drive....

The state of some of those disks is horrendous, and many are non-standard "personal" disks. A karaoke player is far more capable of handling that kind of thing than your computer that is running software.

Put in an A/B switch and be done with it. Trust me, this is the BEST (and most professional) way to handle it. Trying to copy some scmuck's scratched up disk into a temporary file (as with hoster) is gonna suck... the lyrics are gonna be messed up, and the music will sound crappy.

_________________
Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I have a switch box in my chain as I do have European heavy metal DVDs available for my singers. I have to say, of course if someone brings me a disk that is in ill repair, I suggest it may not work; however, I have never had a disc not work ... NEVER! We've been computerized for a year now. The people who bring discs in are people I know. I don't know why I'm defending my use of Hoster's capability to play others' discs - as in my first post, I suggested the reason I do it is for ease of transport.

Again, I will reiterate - I've never had a customer's disc fail. Most are not custom discs, they are songs on brands I recognize. The discs are in great shape. Nobody has ever brought in a write-protected one, I guess, because they have always loaded perfectly and played perfectly. MMhhhhh....

So, to the OP: Consider that MTU Hoster offers this capability and I use it successfully. Not telling you you have to go out right now and get Hoster and offer the service to people without carrying around an extra machine ....certainly not!

k

Never really had this problem with discs. If they didn't know or I couldn't read the number, then i'd look it up for them (9 out of 10 times I knew the number off hand). The misfiled disc was an occasion, but since I used jewel cases it was pretty easy to find if one disc is in one case, open the case that disc is supposed to be & walla. Having 2 players kept the show moving, always had the next song cued up.


You don't have to necessarily update the entire book, but at the very least put in a supplement page at the front with the new disc listing.

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