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Attracting young singers
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Author:  leopard lizard [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Attracting young singers
Bill H's posts have always interested me because I have had the feeling that we won't get anywhere with our business unless we can get in some new blood. But I have questioned our ability to attract the younguns so I thought input would be interesting.

NOT to discriminate--most of the shows I attended were always a mix. But the one we have ourselves is mostly old people singing oldies and it is a shrinking pool. Every now and then we get in a youngun' and even though we say that all singers are welcome they start apologizing for singing Pearl Jam in a Country bar and we don't see them again.

My thoughts: If I were younger, I would be in the hooking up stage and would be looking for a pool of people my own age group?

Even though all songs are welcomed and clapped for, if everyone else was singing a different type of music, I would start to feel out of place?

Can older hosts attract a younger crowd or do young people want someone their own age? (I can already hear karyoker screaming on that one). Sometimes when I go to talk to owners, I think they are looking at me and wanting something younger and edgier.

We have new songs in our book and although I am 56, I actually sing some of them. Do young people think that is weird? So far, our younger bar tendress likes it.

This is sort of a vague question but any thoughts would be interesting.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
leopard lizard @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:42 pm wrote:
Bill H's posts have always interested me because I have had the feeling that we won't get anywhere with our business unless we can get in some new blood. But I have questioned our ability to attract the younguns so I thought input would be interesting.

NOT to discriminate--most of the shows I attended were always a mix. But the one we have ourselves is mostly old people singing oldies and it is a shrinking pool. Every now and then we get in a youngun' and even though we say that all singers are welcome they start apologizing for singing Pearl Jam in a Country bar and we don't see them again.

My thoughts: If I were younger, I would be in the hooking up stage and would be looking for a pool of people my own age group?

Even though all songs are welcomed and clapped for, if everyone else was singing a different type of music, I would start to feel out of place?

Can older hosts attract a younger crowd or do young people want someone their own age? (I can already hear karyoker screaming on that one). Sometimes when I go to talk to owners, I think they are looking at me and wanting something younger and edgier.

We have new songs in our book and although I am 56, I actually sing some of them. Do young people think that is weird? So far, our younger bar tendress likes it.

This is sort of a vague question but any thoughts would be interesting.

My shows have quite a few younger singers. To me it is pretty simple -- they want to go where there is fun and they don't feel fettered. And they also have the same desire as anyone else -- they want to sound good. With my equipment, they sound good -- they can hear themselves and the vocal is not buried in the mix.

And I don't turn down their song because it is new, I turn it *up*.
Author:  karyoker [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
ROFL

As a VFW club mngr and karaoke host I have pondered that for years. I know how to do it and at one time we had to hire a door guard because we had an underage problem. I guarantee you all the rules, discrimination and you are going to do it my way attitudes here does do not work. They had enough of that crap at home before they came here to college.

Come to Greeley Colorado home of the University of Northern Colorado and we will show you how its done. My people regard me as their Grandpa, fall in love at my shows, graduate, get jobs and ask me to do their weddings and parties.

Love, Respect, Acceptance, Elderly Advise, Help Away From Home and a kickass high energy show with all genres and YES dance music.

I keep telling you how to do karaoke and all you want to do is argue like a child.

Let My Children Sing And Let The Fun Begin
Author:  t4d [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
Other than keeping the books diverse and updated, I don't think there's much a karaoke host can do to attract younger singers specifically. A younger host can possibly help attract younger folks, but I think this is a lesser part of the equation. An older host can be fine with a younger crowd, so long as the host is open minded and willing to put up with songs like "humpty dance" and "baby got back" Doesn't hurt if the host sings one of these types of tunes here and there just for fun, either :)

I think that usually the type of venue and location will be the primary influence governing what demographic of crowd shows up. A small tavern in a small town will typically attract older singers doing elvis/cash tunes. A sports bar in a city or college town will typically attract younger singers singing green day and pearl jam. One venue that can be interesting is karaoke hosted at bowling alley bars, this usually attracts a fairly diverse crowd due to the clientele.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
t4d @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:48 pm wrote:
Other than keeping the books diverse and updated, I don't think there's much a karaoke host can do to attract younger singers specifically. A younger host can possibly help attract younger folks, but I think this is a lesser part of the equation. An older host can be fine with a younger crowd, so long as the host is open minded and willing to put up with songs like "humpty dance" and "baby got back" Doesn't hurt if the host sings one of these types of tunes here and there just for fun, either :)

I think that usually the type of venue and location will be the primary influence governing what demographic of crowd shows up. A small tavern in a small town will typically attract older singers doing elvis/cash tunes. A sports bar in a city or college town will typically attract younger singers singing green day and pearl jam. One venue that can be interesting is karaoke hosted at bowling alley bars, this usually attracts a fairly diverse crowd due to the clientele.

To some extent true, but younger people *will* come into a small downscale tavern. I know several small tavern/small town shows, including mine, which don't fit your template at all. Population 1100, seating capacity 50, average age 30. That's my Friday show. A lot of country, but plenty of Alanis Morissette, Pink, Jason Mraz, Puddle of Mudd, and Nickelback.

If you can rock the place, they will come. Fender Passports need not apply. 8-)
Author:  JerryJames [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
If asked, young people will tell you exactly what they want in a show. What I’ve learned is that other than what songs you should have is a good quality sound with volume (a good bottom end sound) Play a little of their dance music and the show should feel a little like a party.

I have also found out the hard way that you can go too far with all this, as a party can go over the top. I find doing a little is much better than a lot.

Finding ways to connect with people at what ever level and making friends when you can, gives people a reason to what to be at your show.

I don’t want a room full of any group of people so I work to keep it balanced.

If you talk to people you want at your show and you will know good advice when you hear it.

I also agree with Mckyj57, I’m 50 and in a small town and I have people of all ages and some come from the larger cities to my show. It’s all about what you have and what you do.
Author:  BruceFan4Life [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
I think it's hard to get a younger crowd to come to an existing karaoke show that is mainly a hangout for an older crowd. They just don't want to listen to an hour of oldies to get their chance to sing a newer song that most of the crowd isn't really into listening to. I think if you want to get a younger crowd you need to solicit a bar that already has a young crowd that frequents the place and try to get hired at that venue.
Author:  JerryJames [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
BruceFan4Life @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:18 pm wrote:
I think it's hard to get a younger crowd to come to an existing karaoke show that is mainly a hangout for an older crowd. They just don't want to listen to an hour of oldies to get their chance to sing a newer song that most of the crowd isn't really into listening to. I think if you want to get a younger crowd you need to solicit a bar that already has a young crowd that frequents the place and try to get hired at that venue.



Maybe hard but not impossible.
Author:  Karen K [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
Interesting question - my husband and I are both in our 50s. We both run shows that are predominantly young people, his in more of a sports bar and mine in a small town tavern like that described above.

First off, I think the attitude of the host has a great deal to do with this. If age comes up in a convo, these yunguns are always SOOO surprised when they find that we could actually be their parents... (haven't reached the grandparent age yet but that is always a possibility LOL). I guess we must act 'hip' but we also sing songs that are either retro (hubby does great Led Zep, and newer artists like Cold Play, Howie Day, Nickelback, etc., and I sing songs that are all considered more of the young genre (Duffy, Pink, Gwen S, Madonna (kind of retro), Brandi Carlile), etc. Not only do we sing those occasionally but we are familiar with the more youthful artists. It is our business to continually expand our knowledge of all genres, even though the last thing I want to do is occasionally listen to urban or hiphop.

This is also where bumper/filler music comes in - before our show we play music that is room appropriate, though I have to say hubby is more likely to put on some guitar wiz like Jeff Beck. In any case, you wouldn't catch us playing Perry Como or Johnny Mathis before our shows, or in a pregnant pause after a singer decides they don't want to do their originally chosen song.

We cultivate the youthful crowd, as well - if younger kids come in, I will intentionally approach them, introduce myself, and create some rapport. I want them to feel like they are my peer when it comes to singing...I am not their 2nd grade teacher. We talk about songs they have heard that they might like to sing ... and I always follow through on that, particularly if there is an artist that we may not have a good selection of, and I'll make sure I get some.

I have worked in places (fraternal lodges, for example) where you just don't get a young crowd - and yes, you can see them dwindle (gasp) as they 'move on.' These organizations are having a real time now inspiring new blood to join them, and part of that is probably due to the "we've always done it that way" attitude.

I have to say, I much prefer to surround myself with youngsters and am more likely to take on a gig that will bring in that type of crowd than one that brings in a crowd that, sadly, is older and so stuck in a rut that they sing the same 6 songs every single week. Age is a state of mind (minus the wrinkles) and it is possible to manifest a persona that is ageless.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
Karen K @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:26 pm wrote:
I have worked in places (fraternal lodges, for example) where you just don't get a young crowd - and yes, you can see them dwindle (gasp) as they 'move on.' These organizations are having a real time now inspiring new blood to join them, and part of that is probably due to the "we've always done it that way" attitude.

We are trying to avoid that at my club. We have kick-butt equipment with 4000 watts going to a pair of 18" subs and 15" tops, and we pretty much ignore any requests to turn down the volume while happily acceding to requests to turn it up. We actually have two crowds -- the 9-11 crowd and the 11-?? crowd (since we can decide to stay late if we are coining money and the KJ is up to it). The first crowd averages 55 years old, the second 30-35 with a lot of 21-25 year olds too.
Author:  lbister [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
There is a kj in my area that has the reverse problem. We have a local bar where the regulars are mostly in their 50s and up. It's a small place.

This kj, who is in his early 30s got what was meant to be a steady once-per-month gig. The first night he showed up with all of this 30-something and younger friends. They took over the bar and the rotation.

I don't think the regulars minded so much except that the music was really loud. As the night progressed the music got louder, the singers got drunker. After two hours all of the regulars vacated the place.

I took my place in the rotation and did my usual 50s and 60s classic rock & roll and some counry. I was suprised that quite a number of the "kids" came up to me later and told me how much they enjoyed what I was doing. I didn't feel out of place at all simply because what I was doing was different from what they were doing. The kj and the crowd were very friendly and I felt welcome every time I took the stage. Aside from the fact that I thought that my ears were going to start bleeding, I had a nice time.

The following month the regulars didn't show up at all that night.

By the time the third month came around, the bar ownner had discovered that many of her regulars weren't coming in at all, regardless of the night. They had found someplace else to go where they felt more comfortable and they didn't come back.

Despite the great z-tapes on the nights of the karaoke shows, her overall business dropped off.

That was the end of that karaoke show.

I work a show regularly in a place that has a crowd that is about 2/3 over 40 and about 1/3 younger than that. Everybody is welcome to sing and they can sing whatever they feel like singing. I'm am careful to keep the volume at a level that isn't too loud for the older crowd, but not too soft for the younger set.

I've noticed the last few times that it seems that I'm gradually getting a few more younger people and I'm retaining the regulars. The age mix is changing and the total crowd is getting bigger.

I don't think I'm doing anything all that special except to actively promote a good time for everyone. No one feels out of place because everyone is included and on a typical night the songs run the gamut of genres from 40s standards to recent hip hop and r&B. No one, including me, likes every song. But there is enough variety that everyone hears plenty of what they like.

I'm very lucky in that while we do have a certain amount of drunken rambling, I also have a few regular singers that people actually come to hear because they sing professionally and come to my show just for fun.

It has gotten to the point where the owner is getting a lot of requests to book me more often (I'm there about once a month) and he has told me that there is a growing sentiment that he should stop booking the other karaoke show he has in there because she only attracts younger people, she's laptop based and can't play a singer's CDs and she's too loud. Attendance, and therefore the z-tape, has dropped of significantly at her shows.

Depending upon the venue I think there's room for everyone at a karaoke show. What makes a big difference seems to be how the kj handles things. And at the end of the day (night) what makes a difference to the person who pays us is how much money is in the cash register.

I won't pretend that what's working for me at this particular venue can happen everywhere. Given the right room, however, I don't think it's a huge trick.

Larry
Author:  Karen K [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
Just to clarify, hubby and I attract a very diverse crowd at both our shows - we have a pretty even percentage of all ages, but my response was directed at the original question, which I thought was a query as to how to attract the younger crowd. It can be a challenge but it isn't impossible. And they aren't all wild hooligans if you inspire them accordingly!
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
lbister @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:00 pm wrote:
There is a kj in my area that has the reverse problem. We have a local bar where the regulars are mostly in their 50s and up. It's a small place.

This kj, who is in his early 30s got what was meant to be a steady once-per-month gig. The first night he showed up with all of this 30-something and younger friends. They took over the bar and the rotation.

I don't think the regulars minded so much except that the music was really loud. As the night progressed the music got louder, the singers got drunker. After two hours all of the regulars vacated the place.

I took my place in the rotation and did my usual 50s and 60s classic rock & roll and some counry. I was suprised that quite a number of the "kids" came up to me later and told me how much they enjoyed what I was doing. I didn't feel out of place at all simply because what I was doing was different from what they were doing. The kj and the crowd were very friendly and I felt welcome every time I took the stage. Aside from the fact that I thought that my ears were going to start bleeding, I had a nice time.

The following month the regulars didn't show up at all that night.

By the time the third month came around, the bar ownner had discovered that many of her regulars weren't coming in at all, regardless of the night. They had found someplace else to go where they felt more comfortable and they didn't come back.

Despite the great z-tapes on the nights of the karaoke shows, her overall business dropped off.

Excellent word of caution. Don't alienate your base. But you can't overdo it -- if your base is dying or moving to the nursing home, they are going bye-bye anyway. That's the problem the Elks, Legion, and VFW are having in our area.

Every time I have mentioned the idea of "keeping something happening" at a club, it has fell with a resounding thud in this forum. But I know at least one or two clubs that do just that. The tape on karaoke night may or may not justify that night. Some nights I am sure not. But if a bar gets a reputation that it can be dead, it might just stay dead. If you are thinking about where to spend a partying weekend, you might check places out on Wednesday or Thursday and then keep coming back there on the weekend as your first stop. I know I did that back in my party days.

My daughter works at a big club that has $10,000 tapes on some weekend nights. They have a karaoke night on Monday. They always have something going, I believe partly because they don't want people to come in at 11:30pm (when younger people go out where we are) and have it be totally dead.
Author:  lbister [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
mckyj57,

I don't know how the service clubs in your area work but around here (Milwaukee, WI) many of the service clubs are private due to the way the liguor licenses work. Only members and their guests are allowed.

Some of the service clubs have changed their liquor licenses so the public can be invited in. In those cases they have seen it as a way to generate additional revenue that will allow them to maintain their premises. Many of the organizations I am familiar with have ultimately changed back to private due to complaints from members who believe that their is no longer a benefit to membership if the public is allowed.

My band plays regularly for the Ekls Club and a Moose Lodge in a nearby town. Those two organizations seem to be having a great deal of difficulty attracting younger members. So attendance at our shows is inevitably skewed to the other crowd and it won't be long before many of them will be in retirement homes.

I don't know what the answer is. In part I think that younger people are not as community minded as previous generations. That seems a tragedy because these organizations do so much good work and fill a need that may die out if the organizations no longer exist.

Larry
Author:  Bill H. [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
Wow! I find myself in agreement with so much already said that I'm speechless!

Since I guess I kind of inspired this thread, I should probably clarify a few things. What I do isn't a big deal. I'm not a big time host in a large club. It's a run-down out of the way bar that seats maybe 80. It's always in the back of my mind that a larger room in the area will eventually provide some real competition. Nothing is ever even remotely permanent in club employment.

This isn't hard to do. I've just been extremely lucky so far.

Like others here I came into this after working for years in bands. But early on I threw out my old band material and learned all new stuff. Probably the best decision I made, not only from a personal growth standpoint but because you really have to walk the walk.

Quote:
We have new songs in our book and although I am 56, I actually sing some of them. Do young people think that is weird? So far, our younger bar tendress likes it.


The most amazing thing people currently in their 20s is their acceptance of things that my generation simply wouldn't have at that age. Yes you can do this without looking weird! Your young bar tendress is not alone.

And I need a nap before tonight. Middle age...
Author:  karyoker [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
More observations....

For the last few generations kids have been barred from bars. Their impressions of what a bar should be like is from the movies. They are not attracted to dull average bars. They expect excitement.

They dont go into clubs because to them it is like going into a rest home.It is simple as that and the oldtimers sit there and frown at them. They dont go out for parental supervision, they go out to experience and mingle with those that ACCEPT them and people that dont put them in a classification of no gooders. And yes thts why the membership is declining but the old farts dont care.

To them music has no special age for any genre nor does it favor any ethnic group. Sure different cultures have their brand of music but real music lovers accept all and yes this old man sings rap. I do Baby Got Back, Dontcha and a few others. Music knows no boundaries.

They are not karaoke nuts that sit there judging the system, worrying about rotation and they dont like rules. They like good systems but prefer an exciting positive high energy lets party atmosphere. Fill music genre has a bearing at times then maybe some nights they want granpas music.

THEY ARE NOT IN THERE JUST FOR KARAOKE!!! When you realize this and start concentrating on other things then you will learn how to attract the younger crowd and all ages can mx if you have a dynamic format that gives everybody what they want instead of just died in the wool karaoke nuts. If I havnt made it clear by now I give up. Stick with the old ways and wonder whats going on.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
lbister @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:10 pm wrote:
mckyj57,

I don't know how the service clubs in your area work but around here (Milwaukee, WI) many of the service clubs are private due to the way the liguor licenses work. Only members and their guests are allowed.

Mostly true. But we are allowed to have guests. They can be signed in up to three times by a member before they need to join. We also can have occasional public nights.

Karaoke is one of our big membership generators. Some people -- like me -- joined just because of karaoke but are now active in the club in other ways.

Quote:
Some of the service clubs have changed their liquor licenses so the public can be invited in. In those cases they have seen it as a way to generate additional revenue that will allow them to maintain their premises. Many of the organizations I am familiar with have ultimately changed back to private due to complaints from members who believe that their is no longer a benefit to membership if the public is allowed.

My band plays regularly for the Ekls Club and a Moose Lodge in a nearby town. Those two organizations seem to be having a great deal of difficulty attracting younger members. So attendance at our shows is inevitably skewed to the other crowd and it won't be long before many of them will be in retirement homes.

I don't know what the answer is. In part I think that younger people are not as community minded as previous generations. That seems a tragedy because these organizations do so much good work and fill a need that may die out if the organizations no longer exist.

We worry about it here, even in our very rural and family-oriented area. We do have a decent core of 40-55 year olds in our area who do work. We raise many tens of thousands of dollars for local charities, so I hope it continues with some of the current twenty- and thirty-somethings stepping in.

I just returned from our Saturday night gig -- we were packed. Even though our total seating capacity is only 40, we had a 19 singer rotation and it was standing room only. (We have much more space by opening up a door, so don't have any fire code problems.) The last 5 Saturday nights have been record tapes. Karaoke is paying a goodly amount of our bills and our fundraisers are an extremely low percentage of overhead as a result.
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
The 20-30 age group that comes in to our show tells me it's alot to do with the selection & more importantly the sound. The tell me they feel like they are at a live show, on stage with a light show. When I added the sub & more amp power (yes making it loud) years back is when we started attracting a younger crowd, the older crowd unfortunately kind of moved on out after that. Our avg age group nowdays is in the 20-30. And like Karen said, no they aren't the hooligans one might think provided you have some kind of rules/structure. I have tamed a few singers that used to try to drop the f-bomb every night & now actually point out when someone did while censoring themselves while up on stage.
Author:  mrscott [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
At one of my shows, I have a very interesting senerio going on. This venue is a bar/restaurant. The bar and the restaurant are actually two separate businesses. Only separated by a common hallway and doors on each side of the hallway. The restaurant is a down-home type food and atmosphere type place. I set up in the restaurant side, which has a small dance floor that they cover up with tables when there is no entertainment. The accoustics aren't too bad, so the sound is pretty good in there. The business allows minors to attend karaoke until 10 p.m. And then out the door they go. Usually, several young-uns are there ready to sing right @ 8:00 p.m. which is start time, by the way. I must tell you some of these youth are really pretty outstanding little singers! It excites me in seeing the future of karaoke in them. So, attracting young singers to karaoke venues is really not gonna be a problem for us as a whole. Not to say it won't be easy in your area.

Might I suggest finding some friends who have teenage kids and try to book a birthday party, or a family party, or whatever floats your boat type party. And they will invite all their friends. You will be pleasantly surprised at the attention you will receive, and the energy they bring to the table...
Author:  leopard lizard [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attracting young singers
Thank you all, I may not give up yet . Ever since a mother asked the bar owner if she could sneak her daughter in for one song and she blew the place away, I have been wanting a way to provide karaoke for younger people. I agree that the enthusiasm is just a bit more gratifying than oldsters who don't want to look up from their slot machine to even clap. .

At our present location we seem to have a combo of what Bruce and Ibster described. We have been sort of schizophrenic in who we catered to--we want more young people--oops--the bar owner's wife is yelling for more oldies and we don't want to drive out old Tex. But old Tex hasn't been that loyal to us anyway and I have a feeling he would come back if there were some sweet young things to look upon. The bar owner would like some younger people in also but may not want to change anything to get them. If the bottom line were to increase, he might be more enthusiastic. Chicken/egg/chicken/egg.

Don't know if we can save our present situation but we talked to our new bartendress last night and oddly enough she has the same assessment as we do. She is going to help us by bringing in her 3 (21 year old age group) daughters next week and encourage them to bring friends. We have pretty good sound (no sub yet, however), new songs (now that I actually know the stuff, I am not as happy with Chartbuster rock/pop as I was and have been sliding in some Zoom and other versions), lights. We need the bar owner to turn on his vent system to make the place more hospitable.


Don't know if it will work but I'm happier persuing this than being depressed/oppressed by the current situation (even the Friday karaoke hosts at our venue who have a bigger show and more loyalty are feeling stifled/in a rut). Will probably go back to the pizza parlour with the big extra room that is thinking about karaoke and see if we can renew their enthusiasm with a more clear vision of what we would like to offer. The bar smoke is killing both us and our equipment and I have always felt more comfortable with the restaurant/bar crowd than strictly bar.
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