Karaoke Forums

I hate contracts but in todays world you just cant take someones word..oh well anyway..was wondering what kind of contracts do all of you use and whats include?

Contracts are nothing more than a waste of time. Never hold up legally, as they are often not legal in the first place.

The best contract is to keep the venue happy.

Here's a contract - your word and the word of your venue owner are worth about as much as a written contract. Just make sure everyone understands what you are offering. Nothing wrong with an info sheet on what you will provide just for future reference; nothing wrong with asking for one from the owner at the same time.

Not many places are willing to enter into a a contractual agreement, even a temporary one, especially in these times. The best thing to do is offer a tentative agreement to provide so many weeks or months of shows and reevaluate at that time, and periodically after that.

None here either for all the reasons already stated. In addition, if things aren't working out, I want out. Life's too short...

I have used them when the venue wanted to put me on the payroll. I had them put the business on the payroll as a contractor and had a contract stating the amount and pay schedule. The current venues I have I haven't used them at all as it keeps things flexible for all involved. No problems thus far.

I do contracts with employees to ensure we have a very clear understanding what is expected from each other. Very basic on page affairs.

Never had 'em. I do make sure that the venue understands what I'm offering, and what I expect from them.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

I have avoided contracts for regular gigs, but as I am beginning to get more private parties, I am beginning to think I need to come up with a standard contract for private parties to make sure neither stakeholder (me or them) gets shafted.

For private gigs, a contract is almost a must have. They don't know what to expect, and trying to repeat the minute details to them is a chore.

For a regular reoccuring gig, they're not worth the paper it's printed on. The venue can change their minds, and no "contract" is going to affect their bottom line - $$

Well. I have contracts for both my private gigs and weekly bars. I know their not worth the paper their wrote on but I feel it outlines both of our duties "in writing" and kinda obligates myself and the venue owner.
I do 4 week contracts with venue owners and have had little problem with that term thus far. I strongly reccommend some written form of agreement.... simply for your own records.

All contracts are legal and binding upon the parties to the agreement. A contract doesn't need to be complicated. It just needs to spell out the terms of the agreement between the parties. In order to be legal it has to be signed by the parties and it has to contain what is known as "consideration". Consideration is no more than one party giving the other party something value, money for example, in exchange for the other party's performance.

Having said the above the issue is not whether the contract is legal but whether it is binding. Only a court can decide that.

Thus far I haven't used a contract for karaoke gigs because I am familiar with the people I'm working for and there is mutual trust.

My band uses a very simple agreement that states the date and beginning and ending times of the performance and the price. It also states how long our sets are to be so the venue knows what to expect.

We have never found the need to have a court determine if our agreement is binding. We use it so that everyone understands their obligations. In four years we have never had a problem.

A couple of years ago my partner had to miss several gigs because he was in the hospital. I did a single show twice and had a substitute for my partner 4 other times. In each case we contacted the venue and informed them about what was happening and obtained their agreement for us to perform. Everybody was happy with the way things turned out.

The only issue we have ever had was one night we played a bar and there was very little business due to the weather. The owner asked us if we would reduce our fee that night because she was losing money. We agreed. The next time we played there we had a good crowd and there was plenty of money going over the bar. At the end of the evening the manager (the owner wasn't there that night) informed us that her take had not been up to expectations and she was going to pay us less.

We don't book with that venue anymore.

When we do a private affair we always get half of our fee up front. That's because we rarely know the people we're going to be playing for and at least we know we're going to get something out of it. So far no one's shied away from that.

In this area we've got two things going for us. First, the community of musicians is fairly small. It's not to difficult to find out if there is a venue that continually stiffs it's bands or kjs. The second thing is that there is a very strong organization of bar owners in the country where we play most of our gigs. They all know each other and they talk to one another. We've worked very hard to build and maintain a great reputation for showing up on time and doing what we are supposed to do. More than one bar owner has told us that he checked with other owners before they hired us and that they were impressed with what they heard.

I have no doubt that eventually we'll have a night where we get stiffed. We won't like it but we'll live with it. But we don't expect that to happen very often.

One of the contributors to this thread observed that if someone's word isn't any good their signature won't be any better. That's true. So you do the best you can to find out who you're playing for and then hope for the best.

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

Not really. At least not in the UK.

Never with clubs, private shows, yes.

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I'm sure that for a private party, or the like, I would insist on some type of written agreement as to the hourly rate, and services rendered for that rate. For a steady venue, a handshake and a look straight in the eye is good enough for me. If a person can't look me in the eyes when we're making an agreement, I don't feel that I can trust them. But that's just me.


Rosario

I don't use CONTRACTS for my bar gigs, but I do for private parties etc.
Not only do contracts protect you they protect the client and give a sense of professionalism . Obviously if something goes crazy --going to court is difficult anyway ...but IMPOSSIBLE without a contract !!!

We've used a contract twice and that was on the insistance of the wedding planner. We're fexible so for a private gig or wedding we ask for half upfront a week prior to the the event. No cash, no show and we continue on with our normal weekly routine.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Never had a contract for bar gigs. I wanted the option to leave if the bar is not holding up their end of the bargain. My customer base is by far more valuable than the income anyway. I can always get another gig but my loyal customer base is hard to replace.

I have only had one occasion in almost 10 years to kill a gig.

I do have contracts for wedding and corporate gigs. Very simple wording that spells out performance times, price and equipment damage etc.

All my private parties are simple. Cash delivered to me just prior to my start time. No cash no play....plain and simple. We have a defined start and stop time and overages cost extra.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

If I did a lot of this, I think I would word it "75% due before start, 25% plus any tip payable afterwards".

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

well, now you're getting into specifics of a contract... as almost all KJs have their own feelings on how to run a show, same same for how to run their business, and contracts!

I found that with the private gigs, if you didn't use the word "deposit", as most people feel that's a refundable thing, you were better off. Call it whatever you weill, a scheduling fee, non-refundable reservation, details fee...

Almost everyone I know that's in any kind of business wants money up front, in part to ensure the contract is completed, but mostly so there's no lost money on their end when they start the process of paperwork, getting music, making all the plans, etc. Believe it or not, no matter how small the work involved is, it's billable, and should be treated as such.

My cash up front policy has not been a problem. Of course I deliver it with a little more finesse than I stated in my post.

I was burned once by a group that was pooling their money together to pay me (I did not know this) and one of the major contributors to the KJ fund was a no call no show. They did not tell me until I had completed a five hour gig.

Ever since then I asked for payment just prior to starting my show. I have had no problems booking shows nor have I had problems getting paid since then.

I'm not asking them for a deposit ahead of time. Just pay me when I arrive and I'm set up and ready to go.

Each to their own on how they collect. I find that it works well for me.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I call it a setup fee. If they cancel it is not returned. It might not be returned according to the circumstances. One example might be if the groom doesnt show up and there is no reception I will refund most of it but sometmes when you commit to a date and lose it you miss out on another gig.

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