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Regulars (karaoke haters)
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Author:  srnitynow [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Regulars (karaoke haters)
As most of you know, I've been hosting a karaoke show for about a month and a half now. As I might add, the show has been very successful. HOWEVER, some of the (bar regulars) are KARAOKE HATERS. Therefore, they are trying to convince the owner to cut back on the karaoke from EVERY Saturday, to EVERY OTHER Saturday. I've discussed this with the owner, and told him that it is HIS place, AND HIS decision to make, but that I strongly disagree with any change, because we have only just begun, and ALL new ventures take time to catch on. He agrees (halfheartedly) with me, but doesn't want to upset his regulars. I've seen this many times, that BAR regulars will say "I can't stand that karaoke sh**". And they'll make a big deal once karaoke starts to announce to the bartender, "well, it's time for me to leave now", slug down their beer, and leave. Most of the time, they are HARDCORE drinkers, who are there to talk to the (pretty barmaid), etc. They also have ALL week to put "bugs" in the owners ear. The karaoke show DOES support itself, but these are NEW people that I am bringing in, and may not be from the area, so are unlikely to come there on an everyday basis. Even though the karaoke is set up in the dining area, and NOT the bar, they still complain to the owner. The owner likes the karaoke show, and likes the extra business, but feels stuck in the middle, which I can understand. Anyone have a similar problem, and any suggestions.

Rosario
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
We call them ..non singers and they have to be taken seriously -As you said
They have the owners EAR all week long. Ask yourself a few questions
#1) Are your singers that BAD ?
#2) How is your overall volume ..is it too loud to hold a conversation at the bar ?
#3) How about song selections? Are your singers singing COUNTRY in a ROCK bar or HIP HOP in a Country bar etc etc ....How about BALLAD HELL LOL
#4) Some bars raise DRINK prices when Karaoke starts does yours?
#5) How long do these people stay usually without Karaoke ? - I've found most oldtimers or all dayers ususally leave anyway by 10pm.
#6) Would some FILLER music in between singers HELP the situation ( I know the singers won't like it ...but)

Try and confront the complainer and ask for SUGGESTIONS on how to improve the show ...maybe make them part of the solution ..empower them --some people like that !
Author:  Nlouch [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
Remember, people make a lot more noise when they dislike something than when they like it.

Some people will offer criticism and never praise.
Author:  srnitynow [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
Jam, I've considered all of your questions, and HONESTLY, these (few) patrons can't complain about ONE specific thing, just that they HATE karaoke. Most of the non-singer (bar) patrons will watch the show from the entrance hall, or even peek in to see a singer or two. And MOST of his customers even tell him how much they like the karaoke show. The bar normally on a non-karaoke night is sort of quiet, with a few stragglers in and out, THAT'S why he hired us, because his Saturday night was so slow. Most have nothing but praise for the singers, AND the songs, AND even the "BALLAD HELL" :shock: But as I said THESE FEW are like a mosquito buzzing around your ear, sometimes you'll do anything to just shut them up. THAT'S what I'm worried about.

Rosario
Author:  GeminiMALE40 [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT COMPLAIN CANT SING OR WONT EVEN TRY..SO THEY FEEL THEY HAVE TO MAKE SOME NOISE..I THINK EVERY PLACE HAS THERE KARAOKE HATERS..ITS JUST PART OF EVERY DAY LIFE...I PERSONALLY TELL THEM THERE IS THE DOOR IF YOU DONT LIKE IT...AND THEY GO BACK TO DRINKING THERE BEER..THE OWNER OF THE BAR JUST LAUGHED WHEN I TOLD HIM!!!!...OOOPPPPSSS...sorry about the caps
Author:  Nlouch [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
Quote:
I PERSONALLY TELL THEM THERE IS THE DOOR IF YOU DONT LIKE IT


As someone who has managed a bar - I would have stopped using you there and then. You would NOT have the right to ask people to leave my bar based upon them complaining.
Author:  Gryf [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
My Advice: Go into the bar a few times during the week and see what happens and who is in there when there is no karaoke. If it's the regulars and they leave at 10 anyway (yeah I know the type) then let the bar owner know that karaoke has little to do with their schedule.

Point is you need to learn the bar patron habits and fit them. The karaoke folks are nice business but if it drives off a $30/night drinkers it's not worth it in the long run for the bar owner.

Find out if their complaints merit a real adjustment. If they do find and make the adjustment. Don't let the problem fester, it's just going to get worse.
Author:  JayM8377 [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
If karaoke is only done once a week, then for crying out loud, the "karaoke haters" have SIX other nights of the week to go chug beer and flirt with barmaids. No one's forcing them to come on Saturday night if they hate karaoke. Keep doing what you're doing and see if you can relay this message to the regulars through the owner.

Sounds like you and the owner are doing nothing wrong. The regulars are just too stubborn to either choose another night to drink or choose a different bar.
Author:  timberlea [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
I personally ignore whiners in all walks of my life. The bottom line is if you're bringing spenders in then that's the bottom line. The whiners will either stay or go.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
srnitynow @ Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 am wrote:
Jam, I've considered all of your questions, and HONESTLY, these (few) patrons can't complain about ONE specific thing, just that they HATE karaoke. Most of the non-singer (bar) patrons will watch the show from the entrance hall, or even peek in to see a singer or two. And MOST of his customers even tell him how much they like the karaoke show. The bar normally on a non-karaoke night is sort of quiet, with a few stragglers in and out, THAT'S why he hired us, because his Saturday night was so slow. Most have nothing but praise for the singers, AND the songs, AND even the "BALLAD HELL" :shock: But as I said THESE FEW are like a mosquito buzzing around your ear, sometimes you'll do anything to just shut them up. THAT'S what I'm worried about.

Rosario


I guess you have to really sit down with the owner and gauge if KARAOKE is good for his BOTTOM LINE... YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH HARD COLD CASH !!!!!
Author:  karaoke koyote [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
jamkaraoke @ Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:39 pm wrote:
srnitynow @ Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 am wrote:
Jam, I've considered all of your questions, and HONESTLY, these (few) patrons can't complain about ONE specific thing, just that they HATE karaoke. Most of the non-singer (bar) patrons will watch the show from the entrance hall, or even peek in to see a singer or two. And MOST of his customers even tell him how much they like the karaoke show. The bar normally on a non-karaoke night is sort of quiet, with a few stragglers in and out, THAT'S why he hired us, because his Saturday night was so slow. Most have nothing but praise for the singers, AND the songs, AND even the "BALLAD HELL" :shock: But as I said THESE FEW are like a mosquito buzzing around your ear, sometimes you'll do anything to just shut them up. THAT'S what I'm worried about.

Rosario


I guess you have to really sit down with the owner and gauge if KARAOKE is good for his BOTTOM LINE... YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH HARD COLD CASH !!!!!


Badda bing. Results talk, bull$heet walks.
Author:  ripman8 [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
GeminiMALE40 @ Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:29 am wrote:
MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT COMPLAIN CANT SING OR WONT EVEN TRY..SO THEY FEEL THEY HAVE TO MAKE SOME NOISE..I THINK EVERY PLACE HAS THERE KARAOKE HATERS..ITS JUST PART OF EVERY DAY LIFE...I PERSONALLY TELL THEM THERE IS THE DOOR IF YOU DONT LIKE IT...AND THEY GO BACK TO DRINKING THERE BEER..THE OWNER OF THE BAR JUST LAUGHED WHEN I TOLD HIM!!!!...OOOPPPPSSS...sorry about the caps


I would hope you are like me and talk smack away from where the customer (any kind of customer in any kind of business) is but know proper etiquette when the situation dictates it. In theory, I agree with what you say, but I would never say it. I had a heckler Saturday night that must have said 30 times during one young lady's perfomaance "LOUDER". Talk about annoying! I can't make someone sing louder if they don't want to. Only so much tweaking can happen.
Author:  mr.fahrenheit [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
This is a problem which festers in my mind all the time.

And it's not just the 5/6 night a week regulars at the bar, I sometimes wonder if the people who are out maybe 1 night a week who come in, and then disappear after 1 drink.

They are obviously not singers but are they the dreaded karaoke haters who I know do exist.

As has been said, you try to keep them with a bit of upbeat filler but then your singers are getting upset cos they're not singing. You can't win can you.

As for the regulars - just stick with it - if they genuinely like the bar (or the barmaid) they will keep coming back even if they sit further away from the karaoke. I know this from experience.

Don't be aggressive with them but have a bit of fun like taking a book over and asking if they're gonna try one !
Author:  c. staley [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
ripman8 said:
Quote:
I had a heckler Saturday night that must have said 30 times during one young lady's perfomance "LOUDER". Talk about annoying! I can't make someone sing louder if they don't want to. Only so much tweaking can happen.
True. You are limited on the "tweakability" factor, but I certainly would have shut down the heckler immediately and I wouldn't care if they were a regular "karaoke hater" that spends $100/night.
Author:  Murray C [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
In just about every karaoke venue I have been to, there are customers in the bar that will get up and leave as soon as the karaoke starts up. Doesn't matter if karaoke starts at 7:00pm or 9:30pm, I've seen it happen over and over again. Yes, it could be because they see me in there waiting to have my chance to try and sing, and think "OMG, I can't stand this guy". But as it happens in places I have not been before, I can only surmise that I would not be the sole reason for the exodus.

I can only guess that a good part of the reason for the "karaoke haters" is that they don't like listening to really bad singing. Perhaps this thread can be closely related to this one...

http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15934

When I saw the attitude of 64% of KJs as being "Practice? Har? It's karaoke! Who gives a rip?! " my immediate answer to that would be "the karaoke haters who walk out as soon as the show starts".

With a majority of KJs not giving a rip about their business, it's no wonder karaoke has such a bad rap!
Author:  Nlouch [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
I think you got the wrong end of the stick there Murrlyn!

Karaoke isn't about good singers. If you believe it is, then you are in the wrong business, and you should look more towards open mic nights and so on. Karaoke is about people singing along to backing tracks - enjoyment over quality.

The fact that I don't care whether my singers are great or not, has no reflection of how I feel about my business or the overall industry.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
Murrlyn @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:23 am wrote:
In just about every karaoke venue I have been to, there are customers in the bar that will get up and leave as soon as the karaoke starts up. Doesn't matter if karaoke starts at 7:00pm or 9:30pm, I've seen it happen over and over again. Yes, it could be because they see me in there waiting to have my chance to try and sing, and think "OMG, I can't stand this guy". But as it happens in places I have not been before, I can only surmise that I would not be the sole reason for the exodus.

I can only guess that a good part of the reason for the "karaoke haters" is that they don't like listening to really bad singing.

When I was a drinking man, if they brought in a DJ, I was out of there. If they brought in a mud wrestling match, I was out of there. If they brought in anything loud and distracting, I was out of there. I wanted to drink and shoot the bull, and wasn't interested in histrionics of any kind.
Author:  Murray C [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
Nlouch @ Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:27 am wrote:
I think you got the wrong end of the stick there Murrlyn!

Karaoke isn't about good singers. If you believe it is, then you are in the wrong business, and you should look more towards open mic nights and so on. Karaoke is about people singing along to backing tracks - enjoyment over quality.

The fact that I don't care whether my singers are great or not, has no reflection of how I feel about my business or the overall industry.


No, I'm not in the wrong business. I quite enjoy sailing! I enjoy singing too... and that is one of the reasons why I will probably never be a KJ.

My point was to give an indication as to one reason why karaoke has such a bad rap and there are so many "karaoke haters" out there. I never said karaoke was about good singers. I said one reason for people leaving is that they don't like 'really bad' singing. I don't enjoy listening to really bad singers myself. But that's something I have to tolerate as part of my enjoyment of karaoke. Perhaps if a KJ were to encourage really bad singers to improve, rather than trying to encourage unresponsive audiences to applaud really bad performances, it might just improve the overall enjoyment for everyone, as well as improve the quality of their show.
Author:  Michaelangelo1 [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
I suppose our KJ business is somewhat unique in that my wife participates in it with me. I am a computer system analyst by trade, so I have a technical, introverted personality, although I do like to sing. I run the equipment. My wife is a total outgoing people-person, so she mixes and mingles with the crowd, joke around, and encourages people to sing. She is the one that often jokingly "teases" first timers until they sing, and then the karaoke virgins really enjoy themselves! I know our team effort is a great benefit to our shows.
Author:  karaoke koyote [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Regulars (karaoke haters)
Karaoke haters are a challenge, but there is a way.

I don't know too much about what's happening at your show from your description. Do you have enough singers to fill your rotation? How many? 10? 20?

If you've got a lot of people coming to sing, than the haters are inconsequential, the register will speak for itself.

If not then you've got some work to do. You may need to increase your music library so you can just play music as well. Dance music too(cupid shuffle anyone?)... oh yeah, you need to learn the dance steps too... and not be afraid to be the only one out there... just do it.

That's what I did at my one gig... and they were serious HATERS!! But they didn't know me.

"Play some Stones!", "Play some Skynyrd"..... etc.

"No problem brother, you got it!" :D

It took a while, but I've got a serious following at that bar, and its not all karaoke. Sometimes I have several singers to start off, sometimes it doesn't happen till later in the evening.

At this point, I'm super familiar with the musical tastes of this bar, and I cater to it, including the songs I sing.

I got one regular who sings "Okie from Muskokie" and that's it. But I make a big deal out of it:

"Alright, its Wednesday night, I'm at the Fort, we're all feeling good, so it must be Alan's turn to come up and rock this place!" Everybody claps cause they know what's coming... and they sing along. Alan will smile and say, "Man Dave, make me sound good, this is the first time for me with this song." :mrgreen:

I got another regular who comes up and does New York, New York (a serious biker type :D )... and makes a big show of it.

The point is, you've got to make an effort to get know these people personally. Find out what they want to hear and then adjust your show appropriately. Yeah, the regulars can break you, but get them on your side, and you will have that permanent gig that will never go away until you choose to leave. I've had that Wednesday night gig for two years now, and it is the one seriously solid night the bar has other than Saturday... but it did not start out that way. It was tough.

Bad performances? What to do.... sometimes there's nothing you can do... but hey, if its a rockin' tune grab the plastic guitar and make a fool of yourself during the solo... its funny, it makes people laugh and might distract them from the bad singing :P

If it is a bad singer try to figure out why... poor song choice? (most likely) Make a suggestion:

"Hey that was great. Do you know this song? I think you would be great on this you should give it a try."

This is a great job, but it takes some work to make it into a good show. However, what you can do is only limited by your imagination and creativity!

Adapt and overcome my friend. :)
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