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Crossover help
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16290		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  VNVMC69 [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Crossover help
I do not know anything about settings on crossover.
please help . Here is the way i'm useing my equip.
Dell laptop with external soundcard too.
1 Behringer Xenyx 1202FX mixer too.
Behringer Super X Pro CX2310 Crossover too.
1 Crown XLS-402D bridged mono 1,400w 4 om too.
Two Yamaha BR15s.
1 Crown XLS-402D bridged mono 800w 8 om too.
1 Peavey Sub PV118.
How do i set up this crossover.
And is this system good for my backyard bar.
THANK YOU.
Author:  gunghouk [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
According to this

http://www.peavey.com/assets/literature ... 3840_4.pdf

and this

https://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Co ... TID=229400

The responses crossover somewhat. A good place to start would be around 80 to 90 Hz. Normally upper limit would be about 150Hz but just dial in to taste.

I would run the tops in stereo though and monofy the output for the sub. Shame you don't have a aux out on that mixer to run the sub from the stereo (music) channel only.

I hope you have understanding neighbours ! :D
Author:  gunghouk [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
Actually I can see that there is a mono output on the crossover.

So you select stereo 2 way on the back of the crossover.

Run the sub out to the amp for the sub cab and set freq to say 75Hz on the front.

Set x-over L and R freq to 75Hz

Mixer L and R main to the x-over and then on to the amp for the Yamahas.

Et voila

Now play with front freq controls for sub v mains for best sound :D
Author:  VNVMC69 [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
was in mono beacuse this is for karaoke only.
i though mono was better for karaoke.
Author:  gunghouk [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
Stereo will separate the instruments from the vocal.

Analogy :-

In mono all your instruments/vocals are in a single file queue with the loudest at the front and the quietest at the back. A bit like listening to an orchestra through a keyhole :)

In stereo all instruments/vocals are facing you in a line from left to right. Vocals are set dead centre and are mixed (by you) to be the predominant feature.

Separation of all the delicate features/nuances are maintained.

Mono is fine for subs and for feeding through the house PA.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
VNVMC69 @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:30 am wrote:
was in mono beacuse this is for karaoke only.
i though mono was better for karaoke.

It is better for clubs and parties in general, because the stereo sweet spot is only in one limited area and is lost on the majority of people.
Author:  lyquiddye [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
Set crossover for 2 way. With a mono summed output for the sub

About 90 to 100 hz for you crossover frequency since your tops are not very good.

Run amp one stereo to your two tops

Run amp two bridged mono to your sub.
Author:  gunghouk [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
There's an echo in here ! :D
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
lyquiddye @ Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:22 pm wrote:
About 90 to 100 hz for you crossover frequency since your tops are not very good.

I don't agree with this. The PV118 subwoofer will reproduce a good bass sound even above 200Hz, so the thing to do here is set the cross-over for the best overall sound, which will be a balance of amplifier head-room and bass response on the Yamaha 15" drivers, which is also not bad.

The SuperX CX2310 uses 24dB/octave LR circuits, so you do not have to worry quite as much about overlap and getting too close to the upper/lower end of particular speakers' useful operating bandwidth. I would guess lyquiddye suggested 90-100Hz because he/she is familiar with cross-overs that have a more gentle slope, or maybe that person really hates the sound of that Yamaha 15" driver. :)

The reason I mention amplifier head-room is pretty simple once explained: if you are clipping your sub amp, reduce the bandwidth you are using it for a little bit, as long as you do not feel like you are compromising your sound by making the 15" driver do too much. If the full-range amp is clipping, increase the cross-over point similarly until both amps have a similar amount of head-room, or you notice a negative change in sound quality because you are using the sub at higher frequencies it is not good at reproducing.

I use my PV118s up to 180Hz with an 18dB/octave LR slope, and this works well in combination with various 2-1/2-way cabinets I use them with. Your Yamaha 15" drivers have basically similar bandwidth to mine (JBL, Kustom) but the 2-1/2-way cabs just have more of them so work, and thus heat, is distributed a little.

Oh yeah, and one more thing, if your amps have a high-pass filter (which might also be called "low cut") that can be engaged around 25-40Hz, go ahead and use it on all your amp channels. I send no signal to my PV118s below 37.5Hz. They don't reproduce any valuable sound below that frequency anyway, so any signal below that frequency is just wasting amplifier power and adding heat to the sub.
Author:  Micky [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
gunghouk @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:14 am wrote:
There's an echo in here ! :D


I know, I know, I know, I know... :wink:
Author:  gunghouk [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
Thinking about this I think I would run just the top boxes and reduce the freq of the x-over until a true reduction in low end performance could be heard (using a music source with plenty of bottom in it).

This'll give a better idea of the top box's true low end reponse.

Increase the top box's x-over freq to just above this and then set the sub x-over freq to around the same freq as the tops and then adjust sub amplification for smooth sound through the crossover region.

This seems a logical empirical methodology without the need for fancy measuring gear/software.
Author:  gunghouk [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
That should be 'increase the freq of the x-over until a drop in top box performance can be heard then set the sub x-over to this freq'.
Author:  Lonman [ Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
gunghouk @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:25 am wrote:
Increase the top box's x-over freq to just above this and then set the sub x-over freq to around the same freq as the tops and then adjust sub amplification for smooth sound through the crossover region.


The frequencies can't be adjusted individually. Once you have your sub frequency set, the tops will take over from wherever the sub frequencies end.
Author:  gunghouk [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
Sub freq is separately adjustable on this his crossover
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
gunghouk @ Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:15 am wrote:
Sub freq is separately adjustable on this his crossover


Yes but once that sub frequency is selected, the tops are going to get everything from the sub frequency selected on up - there is no selecting a frequency for both - it's one frequency only. So if the sub only get up to 100HZ, the tops are going to get 100HZ on up.
Author:  gunghouk [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
Exactly....thats the point of the exercise with only 2 amps available.

These top cabs are full range and only have a single amp available to drive them.

The recommendation was stereo full range (sub x-over freq upwards) for the tops and mono bridged (sub x-over freq downwards) for the sub.
Author:  gunghouk [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
What you would actually be doing is, in stereo 2-way mode, using the high outputs only and driving the top cabs amp from the hi output.

The crossover freq on the front needs to be set lower than for a traditional mid/hi scenario (around 75 to 150Hz depending on the real low end response of the top boxes).

The mono sub output has it's own freq control and is a mono sum of the 2 inputs so this freq would usually be somewhere near the main x-over freq settings.

Check the x-over manual and you'll see what I mean.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
gunghouk @ Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:24 am wrote:
Check the x-over manual and you'll see what I mean.

Are you stating that the CX2310 does not have a high-pass filter on the low band which is set to the same frequency as the mono-sub low-pass filter when the sub switch is on?

There is no block diagram and no specific statement in the current version of the CX2310 manual, but I believe there is such a high-pass filter on the low band. If not, the only reason to use the thing (without bi-amp mains or sub/low/high cabs) would be to low-pass the sub and increase its amp head-room, and mix the low frequency content down to mono for single sub / bridge operation.
Author:  gunghouk [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
The sub out is a low pass, independant output as distinct from the low/mid/high outputs on the rear.It's freq setting is unique to it's output and is not affected by the main x-over settings in 2 way stereo or 3 way mono modes.

In the 2 way stereo application described previously the low outputs are not used, as the x-over freq setting is so low, and the hi output therefore effectively becomes a full range output (say 100Hz to 20kHz)

Unfortunately I do not have this crossover unit to confirm my understanding of it's operation and can only presume this method of operation from the manual.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crossover help
gunghouk @ Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:15 pm wrote:
The sub out is a low pass, independant output as distinct from the low/mid/high outputs on the rear.

I occasionally fill in for the house sound guys at a club that has a CX2310 in their house system. The next time I am there when the system isn't in use, I'll see if I can find this out. I had a circuit breaker on the amp rack trip on me once, though, and when I powered up the full-range amp I did not notice much bass content. I was paying more attention to how to pull the sub amp's power cable out of the rack so I could hook it to a working electrical outlet, though ;)
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