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Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
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Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Lonnie posted something in another (thankfully closed) thread that got me thinking of this question.

He posted:

Karaoke in restaurants is a non-winning avenue to begin with - I have never seen a restaurant only club work - especially during dinner hours which I would put between 5-9. But this is in my own little world of the Seattle/Tacoma area. VERY few that have karaoke before 9 & even fewer that aren't in bars. Karaoke & liquor go hand in hand.
_________________
Lonnie


Now, he DID say he was talking about his area only, so I'm not in debate. However, I paid for my house doing restaurant karaoke. I usually start near 8:30- 9 or so, but all restaurants.

So what doesn't work in one area may work in another. Is there any type of venue that YOU think won't work for karaoke? If so, please explain why.
Author:  diafel [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Until I joined this forum, I had never heard of karaoke in restaurants.
I highly doubt it would even be considered by any venue owners as people just don't think in terms of equating karaoke with restaurants. They DO equate it with bars, however.
Author:  stogie [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
We have a VERY successful chicken wing place here with a couple of locations that has had Karaoke for a long, long time called Mugs N Jugs. They have a prominent stage, good sound gear, a huge library and unless there is a very big sports game on they have Karaoke 7 nights a week. They are very popular and have long rotations. The food is good too. They also sell beer and wine, I don't remember if they have a full liquor bar, but I think they do. These are big restaurants that do a big gross and that are busy all the time.
Author:  karyoker [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Go into a motel chain and ask for the food and beverage mngr.They do conventions and hire for the lounge all entertainment. Hit them with the idea of providing soft dinner music. Then karaoke and dance music in the lounge. I very seldom disagree with Lon but this time I will. This is one of the most lucrative avenues we have at our disposal. And do ask for more than $200.
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
But do your restaurants server beer/wine or alcohol at all? 8-8:30 is not a weird hour to begin. I was getting at a restaurant only type venue that serves no alcohol will typically not draw enough of a crowd to warrant keeping or even trying entertainment. Same with coffee houses (which are all over up here), I have seen many try & those same many fail because there is only so much espresso/coffee someone can drink. Many of these places are really too small to begin with to be able to bring in entertainment & then the subsequent customers to not only pay for it, but turn a profit as well. Most of these are also family oriented shows, which can help, but not necessarily be regular return customers & the ones that are will typically order their dinner & leave after a couple songs anyway, no point in paying the extra expense for karaoke if that's all they were going to do - now would they have come in if karaoke wasn't there, maybe /maybe not, but the few added customers don't offset the added entertainment expense - again this is up here & what i've experienced in my time of working karaoke.
Author:  Bill H. [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
If it's set up like a supper club, I think restaurants can support karaoke.

It's kind of what I did last night. This is that Elks lodge I've talked about before. When they were forced to go non-smoking in January I was worried they might not survive. But they gambled on a new direction. They remodeled the lounge, putting in new furnishings and carpet, and refinished the beautiful old mahogany trim that's everywhere. There's a new upscale menu and tablecloths. They placed me and a small dance floor in an area separated from the bar where they now serve meals. They changed my hours to 6:30-11:00.

It really looks nice in there. The last few Fridays the place has been full.

Now, just like a supper club, alcohol is an important component. For the first hour or so I'm basically singing solo until the drinks start to kick in.

They're trying to replace the lost gaming revenues with food. There's not nearly as much profit in food so I don't know if they are out of the woods yet. But as a concept it's going over.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
We have a few restaurant gigs here, but alcohol is always served. It provides the upside. If your best night included just dinners, it wouldn't fund the bad nights. Alcohol provides a late-night profit when you get busy late. That is when they win.
Author:  ericlater [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Maybe this thread would do more good if it focused on the accuracy of the following post from someone who had plenty to say about the restaurant karaoke during my discussions regarding freeloaders. Only when all was said and done, and that "other" thread was locked, did he ADMIT that he is completely ignorant of the workings of karaoke in a restaurant environment, as are so many others on this forum!

Quote:
Lonman
Re: Water drinkers at karaoke
PostPosted: Yesterday at 4:33 pm

Karaoke in restaurants is a non-winning avenue to begin with - I have never seen a restaurant only club work - especially during dinner hours which I would put between 5-9. But this is in my own little world of the Seattle/Tacoma area. VERY few that have karaoke before 9 & even fewer that aren't in bars. Karaoke & liquor go hand in hand.


To the contrary:
a) THERE ARE plenty of successful karaoke shows in restaurants, and I am not the only one on this forum who has discussed them or alluded to them! Even the person who started this thread has noted his preference for and success with karaoke at restaurants.
b) around here, restaurants usually start between 7 and 8pm and last 3 hours, but I know of one show that starts at 6:30 and goes til 10:30
c) those who frequent restaurants, typically, spend more on food than on alcoholic beverages, although some purchase both
d) restaurant shows, for the most part, are not expected to entertain the existing clientele but to bring in new diners and to "extend" the hours during which dinners are actually being served! One place was so successful in doing that they had to start to take reservations on Sunday and people were waiting outside to get in.
NOTE: The customers are welcome to stay around for the ENTIRE show; they don't leave after they finish eating. But those who spend money, as they should, are providing the establishment with anywhere form an extra $25 to $40 per couple. And simply put, it's "found" revenues!
e) just about all restaurants around here serve beer and wine. It's a cheaper license to obtain than for a bar so long as most of your revenues are derived from food. It's costs a bit more to get a full liquor license for a restaurant, but again so long as food is the primary source of revenue it cost much less than if you open a full bar or a beer bar that serves little or any food!

And I, because of my experience with restaurant karaoke, don't believe that "karaoke and liquor go hand in hand"
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
karyoker @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:32 pm wrote:
Go into a motel chain and ask for the food and beverage mngr.They do conventions and hire for the lounge all entertainment. Hit them with the idea of providing soft dinner music. Then karaoke and dance music in the lounge. I very seldom disagree with Lon but this time I will. This is one of the most lucrative avenues we have at our disposal. And do ask for more than $200.


Agreed. The cool thing about restaurant karaoke is that they can AFFORD to pay more, because of the other income. I just love it. On top of that, the clientele is usually much better behaved than the pubs. They are also more inclined to hand you a twenty at the end of the night. :D
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Lonman @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:36 pm wrote:
But do your restaurants server beer/wine or alcohol at all? 8-8:30 is not a weird hour to begin. I was getting at a restaurant only type venue that serves no alcohol will typically not draw enough of a crowd to warrant keeping or even trying entertainment. Same with coffee houses (which are all over up here), I have seen many try & those same many fail because there is only so much espresso/coffee someone can drink. Many of these places are really too small to begin with to be able to bring in entertainment & then the subsequent customers to not only pay for it, but turn a profit as well. Most of these are also family oriented shows, which can help, but not necessarily be regular return customers & the ones that are will typically order their dinner & leave after a couple songs anyway, no point in paying the extra expense for karaoke if that's all they were going to do - now would they have come in if karaoke wasn't there, maybe /maybe not, but the few added customers don't offset the added entertainment expense - again this is up here & what i've experienced in my time of working karaoke.


Still no debate, Lon. I won't work a BYOB restaurant. I guess I have to ask- are they more prevalent in your area than mine? Most BYOBs in my area last around 18 months TOPS, then die.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
mckyj57 @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:23 pm wrote:
We have a few restaurant gigs here, but alcohol is always served. It provides the upside. If your best night included just dinners, it wouldn't fund the bad nights. Alcohol provides a late-night profit when you get busy late. That is when they win.


Dead on, Mick- Instead of closing at ten, I keep them open and profitable until 2:30
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
JoeChartreuse @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:01 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:36 pm wrote:
But do your restaurants server beer/wine or alcohol at all? 8-8:30 is not a weird hour to begin. I was getting at a restaurant only type venue that serves no alcohol will typically not draw enough of a crowd to warrant keeping or even trying entertainment. Same with coffee houses (which are all over up here), I have seen many try & those same many fail because there is only so much espresso/coffee someone can drink. Many of these places are really too small to begin with to be able to bring in entertainment & then the subsequent customers to not only pay for it, but turn a profit as well. Most of these are also family oriented shows, which can help, but not necessarily be regular return customers & the ones that are will typically order their dinner & leave after a couple songs anyway, no point in paying the extra expense for karaoke if that's all they were going to do - now would they have come in if karaoke wasn't there, maybe /maybe not, but the few added customers don't offset the added entertainment expense - again this is up here & what i've experienced in my time of working karaoke.


Still no debate, Lon. I won't work a BYOB restaurant. I guess I have to ask- are they more prevalent in your area than mine? Most BYOBs in my area last around 18 months TOPS, then die.

More prevalent? No like I said, up here there are few restaurant only (no alcohol) karaoke shows that exist (actually right now I can't think of any currently) & the ones I have seen in the past have never worked - up here.
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
ericlater @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:53 pm wrote:
Maybe this thread would do more good if it focused on the accuracy of the following post from someone who had plenty to say about the restaurant karaoke during my discussions regarding freeloaders. Only when all was said and done, and that "other" thread was locked, did he ADMIT that he is completely ignorant of the workings of karaoke in a restaurant environment, as are so many others on this forum!

Quote:
Lonman
Re: Water drinkers at karaoke
PostPosted: Yesterday at 4:33 pm

Karaoke in restaurants is a non-winning avenue to begin with - I have never seen a restaurant only club work - especially during dinner hours which I would put between 5-9. But this is in my own little world of the Seattle/Tacoma area. VERY few that have karaoke before 9 & even fewer that aren't in bars. Karaoke & liquor go hand in hand.


To the contrary:
a) THERE ARE plenty of successful karaoke shows in restaurants, and I am not the only one on this forum who has discussed them or alluded to them! Even the person who started this thread has noted his preference for and success with karaoke at restaurants.
b) around here, restaurants usually start between 7 and 8pm and last 3 hours, but I know of one show that starts at 6:30 and goes til 10:30
c) those who frequent restaurants, typically, spend more on food than on alcoholic beverages, although some purchase both
d) restaurant shows, for the most part, are not expected to entertain the existing clientele but to bring in new diners and to "extend" the hours during which dinners are actually being served! One place was so successful in doing that they had to start to take reservations on Sunday and people were waiting outside to get in.
NOTE: The customers are welcome to stay around for the ENTIRE show; they don't leave after they finish eating. But those who spend money, as they should, are providing the establishment with anywhere form an extra $25 to $40 per couple. And simply put, it's "found" revenues!
e) just about all restaurants around here serve beer and wine. It's a cheaper license to obtain than for a bar so long as most of your revenues are derived from food. It's costs a bit more to get a full liquor license for a restaurant, but again so long as food is the primary source of revenue it cost much less than if you open a full bar or a beer bar that serves little or any food!

And I, because of my experience with restaurant karaoke, don't believe that "karaoke and liquor go hand in hand"


And your point is, do you actually READ? I said RESTAURANTS THAT SERVE NO ALCOHOL!!!!!!
Author:  leopard lizard [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
I'm confused. It sounds like in Joe's case, it is not so much restaurant karaoke as karaoke in a lounge/bar attached to a restaurant? Or are you right in the food serving area?
Author:  ericlater [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Lonman, I stand by post and my point of view that karaoke and liquor DO NOT go hand in hand. Many of those in attendance at restaurants do not drink alcohol! So, serving alcohol is not a prerequisite for having karaoke at a venue.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leopard, most of the places I refer to as restaurants have no bars, period, and the people come primarily for the food and karaoke. IMO, once a place has a bar and there are people who show up primarily to drink, it is no longer (just) a restaurant ----- it maybe called a Bar & Grill. And, yes, there are also places that have a restaurant and a bar in separate rooms! In fact, I had a situation where the place had three rooms: a restaurant, a bar, and a bar and grill... and I played in all three to see where the karaoke would work best.
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
ericlater @ Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:43 pm wrote:
Lonman, I stand by post and my point of view that karaoke and liquor DO NOT go hand in hand. Many of those in attendance at restaurants do not drink alcohol! So, serving alcohol is not a prerequisite for having karaoke at a venue.


So do or do not your restauarants serve alcohol or beer/wine? Yes or no? Whether people are drinking or not.
Author:  ericlater [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Lonman

I refer you to my post of 12:53am made this morning in this thread
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Lonman @ Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:35 pm wrote:
JoeChartreuse @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:01 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:36 pm wrote:
But do your restaurants server beer/wine or alcohol at all? 8-8:30 is not a weird hour to begin. I was getting at a restaurant only type venue that serves no alcohol will typically not draw enough of a crowd to warrant keeping or even trying entertainment. Same with coffee houses (which are all over up here), I have seen many try & those same many fail because there is only so much espresso/coffee someone can drink. Many of these places are really too small to begin with to be able to bring in entertainment & then the subsequent customers to not only pay for it, but turn a profit as well. Most of these are also family oriented shows, which can help, but not necessarily be regular return customers & the ones that are will typically order their dinner & leave after a couple songs anyway, no point in paying the extra expense for karaoke if that's all they were going to do - now would they have come in if karaoke wasn't there, maybe /maybe not, but the few added customers don't offset the added entertainment expense - again this is up here & what i've experienced in my time of working karaoke.


Still no debate, Lon. I won't work a BYOB restaurant. I guess I have to ask- are they more prevalent in your area than mine? Most BYOBs in my area last around 18 months TOPS, then die.

More prevalent? No like I said, up here there are few restaurant only (no alcohol) karaoke shows that exist (actually right now I can't think of any currently) & the ones I have seen in the past have never worked - up here.


That's kinda what I meant. MOST restaurants in my area serve alcohol. The ones that don't still have it via Bring Your Own Bottle. Even the diners. The only real exceptions are fast food chains like McD's. Again, I'm only talking about my area.

There is no question that alcohol is a huge aid.
Author:  ericlater [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
Joe

I am not sure that I understand your statement that "alcohol is a huge aid". No doubt that bars are where people go to find live entertainment, but people go to bars without entertainment!

Years ago, I frequented what I can only describe as a "supper club" in Garfield, NJ. If nothing else, it was known for it's fabulous and reasonably priced food. When you entered the place the bar area was off to the left with a few tables and booths; the dining area was off to the right, and there was a stage and dance floor in front of you.

At the invitation of a friend, who was in a contest, it was there that I first experienced karaoke. Otherwise, I frequented the place for the live country bands.

I earlier alluded to a local place that ended up taking reservations on Sundays due to the success of karaoke. It also expanded karaoke to 2 nights a week. It was an Italian restaurant with good food, but not enough business; it's name was Jersey Pizza. It seated less than 80 people, as I recall, and it was a place to bring the family to eat, not drink. Yes, they served wine!

I had also previously mentioned a coffee house that provided karaoke and initially had no liquor license. The newest owner added beer and wine, and also expanded the menu. Another coffee house recently opened and has karaoke. It offers bottled beer, but I don't recall if they offer wine?
Author:  KaraokeBaby [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Where Don't YOU Think Karaoke Will Work?
I do Karaoke at restaurants ALL THE TIME, and I do well. It works during the private parties at the restaurants. You will be amazed, basically someone has a party at the restaurant, it usually is in a private room which they go in and out of, other people at the restaurant see all the FUN, and then they want to have their own party. It makes the restaurant happy, and keeps business coming back again and again. It keeps me happy, because I don't have to do as many gigs there, but I make REALLY GOOD tips when I do.

Besides that, I do really good at company parties, meeting etc. I try to NOT do your traditional Bars a lot, because we may be linked by profession, but a lot of us are CUT THROAT! I got sick of always looking over my shoulder. So now I do SPOT Bar shows and mostly the restaurant parties and company gigs. The restaurant parties are pretty regular, but I get a week or two off every once in a while, especially during the summer.
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