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Small Room Speakers
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Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue May 05, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Small Room Speakers
Just a question, If I was looking for a speaker that would be ideal in a very small lounge type setting ( something along the lines of a BOSE set up for fraction of the costs) IS there such a thing? A speaker that can produce a full room filling sound without overpowering on VOLUME or harsh ear piercing highs .

I'm assuming a 12" but could be wrong and I'm not sure it would need to be more a discussion on AMP MIXER SPEAKER package to achieve the sound.

Again I was just thinking out loud .
Author:  Micky [ Tue May 05, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Well, it's my setup :wink:

A pair of EV ZX1
http://www.electrovoice.com/products/250.html

Powered by my new Crown XTi 2000
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xti.htm

And my sub is a KV2 audio Kx 1.2
http://www.kxaudio.com/products.asp?ProdID=KX1.2

I tell you, it's a rich and smooth sound, I do have an EQ but I don't really need it!
Author:  Karen K [ Tue May 05, 2009 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
After the beating Mackie took on here, I'm hesitant to post, but in all honesty, we use 2 SM350s and a 15-inch powered sub in any room we do - it sounds rich, full, not piercing. I just love the clarity of sound. Next step up is to switch out the 350s for the 450s. Same great sound but obviously more volume.

I do a room that is about a 40-person capacity bar - the 350s are on stands up in the far corner. Obviously I can't crank them and I don't even use the sub in there, but the sound is really great. Small footprint, small rack (no amp). Great for a small room.

Now I'll go and say penance for having Mackie equipment and loving it. :angel:
Author:  stogie [ Wed May 06, 2009 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
EV Zx1 or EV Sx80 with one EV Sb122 sub if it's a small room. I've read good things about the FBT Jolly 8 too. A pair of quality 10" speakers like Peavey Impulse will be good too. My 12" speakers can do a couple hundred people and IMO are overkill. A pair of 8" or 10" with one sub is all you need for a small room and I've done lots of them. You could use a pair of Sb122 subs depending on the size of the place.

I have 3 different amps I've used with the Zx1 speakers and the Sb122 subs: Peavey PV1500 amp(too heavy to carry) about 500wpc@4ohms, Yamaha EMX512 powered mixer-works great-about 500wpc@4ohms, an old Radio Shack Optimus 250 amp-works excellent.

Optimal amount of power is about 1000wpc-1600wpc @4ohms. I'm not getting anywhere near what the speakers are capable of with the amps I'm using. You might be able to use one Zx1 and one Sb122 in mono and that might be plenty.

Actually, a pair of high quality 8" or 10" speakers could work without even using a sub, but it depends on the size of the room, ceiling height, wall coverings, floor type, number of people etc. I've used just the Zx1s for some of my small room performances and they were more than enough, way more.
Author:  Flipper [ Thu May 07, 2009 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Bose has come out with a brand new L1 Compact for $999 is that within budget?

If so it would be perfect for you.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Thu May 07, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
I know you guys knock my Kustom speakers, but I'll tell you what, they are dirt cheap and they sound better than my JBL TR-series. Click on this link to see the different speakers http://www.kustom.com/product_family.aspx?TypeID=8&FamilyID=83&Tab=4.

I use KSC 15ML wedges, and I have used them for FoH in small events. I have two KSC 215H cabinets for FoH at the bar. My partner and I run them 20 hours a week, have been for almost a year, and they get the job done even when the place is packed on busy weekends. I power them with a Crown XTi 2000 amp, which puts out 800 watts per channel into 4 ohms. It is a little too powerful for those boxes. I should set the XTi limiter around -3dB to prevent damage but so far we just abuse them and they keep on working.

You can buy those wedges for about $100 each from Musician's Friend, and they have the 215H cabinets on sale right now $350 for a pair. I am ordering more tomorrow, as I do not want to use the JBLs in my B-rig for weddings this summer. Last time I got some they came on a 53' tractor-trailer with no lift-gate, though, so uh... be sure you can accept delivery that way. I had to ask a bar owner to let me receive them at his place because the truck could not get to my house.

You will get told to buy EV and Yorkville and stuff like that. Those are good brands. I like JBL and I almost bought some MRX525s instead of more Kustom speakers, but the fact is these things are very good for the price. No, you can't bi-amp them, and no there are no SpeakOn connectors, but really, they sound good and they have put up with my abuse for more hours in a year than a lot of speakers work in 2 or 3 years.

EDIT: you will want to run them with subs. I have my high-pass 24dB/octave at 125Hz on the FoH, and for my stage wedges, I have a low-cut filter at about 60Hz. When I was running more bass to the wedges I could hear them distort sometimes. I assume that would also be true of the 215H, though the enclosure is larger and I assume that allows it to go a little lower, I never tried below 125Hz since I always have subs.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Thu May 07, 2009 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
You said a small venue, right? 2 EV xi2123A/106F 12" 3 ways http://www.electrovoice.com/products/34.html

No thumpers.
Author:  Gryf [ Thu May 07, 2009 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
JoeChartreuse @ Thu May 07, 2009 4:54 pm wrote:
You said a small venue, right? 2 EV xi2123A/106F 12" 3 ways http://www.electrovoice.com/products/34.html

No thumpers.


I hope this ain't a portable system: Xi-2123A/106F - Weight Net 63.6 kg ( 140.21 lbs )

What are they made of to weigh that much?!
Author:  Micky [ Thu May 07, 2009 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
That's really what I think you need :wink:

http://www.electrovoice.com/documents/e ... CP2200.pdf
Author:  stogie [ Thu May 07, 2009 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
There is a good reason why people recommend EV and Yorkville. If you've ever owned or used those brands you know what high quality, professional equipment sounds like and performs like. Kustom speakers aren't pro grade equipment and you won't find pros using or recommending Kustom speakers. I would recommend and buy Behringer gear before I would spend my money on Kustom. Thankfully I never bought Kustom speakers when I was starting out and knew nothing. I had very little money and almost bought a pair. For a little more you can buy better quality equipment that will sound good and last a long time.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Thu May 07, 2009 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Gryf @ Thu May 07, 2009 7:11 pm wrote:
JoeChartreuse @ Thu May 07, 2009 4:54 pm wrote:
You said a small venue, right? 2 EV xi2123A/106F 12" 3 ways http://www.electrovoice.com/products/34.html

No thumpers.


I hope this ain't a portable system: Xi-2123A/106F - Weight Net 63.6 kg ( 140.21 lbs )

What are they made of to weigh that much?!


All in the magnets, my friend. But you're saving weight with no thumper.

I find that if I carry one in each hand I don't fall over.... :D
Author:  Gryf [ Thu May 07, 2009 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
I'd be lucky to move let alone fall over :)
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Fri May 08, 2009 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Gryf @ Fri May 08, 2009 2:40 am wrote:
I'd be lucky to move let alone fall over :)


Ah. Ya want light? Try THESE http://www.fullcompass.com/product/286875.html


FBT MAXX-2 10", sound like 15". Truly Amazing! Built in limitors, virtually unblowable. TERRIFIC for their size Around 24 LB

There is an even smaller model called the Jolly-8 http://www.fullcompass.com/product/233920.html

Same features, but less power 8" that sound like 12"

However, while you can run the MAXX-2s without ( Though better to have a SMALL thumper), you'll definitely need a thumper for the 8s.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Fri May 08, 2009 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
stogie @ Thu May 07, 2009 11:10 pm wrote:
Kustom speakers aren't pro grade equipment and you won't find pros using or recommending Kustom speakers.

We're not talking about the Fall Out Boy tour. I like those Kustom cabinets enough that I have a second set of them on the way along with more wedges. I think they are comparable to the Yamaha club-series, and they cost a lot less. I noticed you mentioned Behringer. I have not heard the new B2520 Pro cabinet, and I would like to; but I already know I like the custom boxes and at $350 for a pair, they are a great value.

I have many friends who questioned my purchasing decision based on the logo. So many, in fact, I thought about removing the logo ;) None have had anything negative to say about the way they sound; and in fact most agree with me that they are better than the low-end JBL.

I might not be a "pro," but my A-rig earns its keep 20 hours a week, and I don't just buy the cheapest thing I can get away with. I don't waste money on brand names, though. My customers are wedding parties, bar owners, and now weekend bands, and they pay for sound quality, personality, and music selection. They do not care if the cabinet says EV or Kustom. :)
Author:  stogie [ Fri May 08, 2009 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Dude thanks for the good laugh. If you think your Kustom speakers sound as good as Yamaha S115V speakers you need to go get a hearing test.

Comparing them to JBL entry level speakers isn't saying much, they're not very good.

Put one of your speakers next to a real speaker like a Yamaha S115V, a Yorkville or an EV Sx100, or other quality speaker and you''ll clearly hear the difference. If you can't tell the difference then it doesn't matter. I'd even take a Peavey PR over a Kustom and I don't think much of the PR, but at least they're light weight.

You're scrimping on something that you should be overspending on and that can make a huge difference in your sound quality. The little extra it costs to buy better quality, better sounding speakers is well worth it-just not to you.

And I agree with you, you should take the Kustom logo off so no one will know that you're using them. Don't you think that if they were sooooo good that SERIOUS professionals would be using them? I see lots of bands and Karaoke hosts using Yamaha speakers and they sound really good. I see Peavy, EV, JBL, Bose, Mackie and even Behringer-I never see bands or other payed professionals using Kustom-NEVER EVER. There is a good reason. It's not Pro gear.

I use two different Nady mics and they work just fine for me. People will say it's not Pro gear, it's crap, the quality and performance are poor. The difference is, I can use those mics and no one could tell. Can the same be said for Kustom speakers?
Author:  RLC [ Fri May 08, 2009 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
JoeChartreuse @ Fri May 08, 2009 12:31 am wrote:
I find that if I carry one in each hand I don't fall over.... :D


You can carry 140 lbs in each hand...I'm impressed! :lol:
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Fri May 08, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
stogie @ Fri May 08, 2009 5:51 pm wrote:
I use two different Nady mics and they work just fine for me. People will say it's not Pro gear, it's crap, the quality and performance are poor. The difference is, I can use those mics and no one could tell. Can the same be said for Kustom speakers?

You have made my point for me. I'm sure you have heard crappy Kustom speakers. I doubt you have heard the models I use, or your opinion of the brand might be different.

And no, if I took the logos off, no one would know they are a crappy brand. I receive a lot of compliments on my A-rig. The venue's customers are not used to bands having decent sound, let alone KJ/DJ. I got 3 wedding bookings from people there in the past couple months, and I don't even tell their customers I do anything besides bars unless they ask. If I thought I was going to miss out on an opportunity to get more wedding/party jobs, trust me, I would go spend money on JBL MRX525s. But as it is, we are getting so busy I needed to buy another rig, so I just bought more of the inexpensive speakers I already like. :)
Author:  timberlea [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Your Kustoms to our Yorkvilles is like our Yorkvilles to Meyer. There's a world of difference which is why the Sydney Opera House and many many other top of the line venues use Meyer. We'd buy the Meyer but they are over 8 times the cost of Yorkville. I know a car is just a car but there is no comparison between a Yugo and a Lexus or Caddy.
Author:  LondonLive [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
timberlea @ Sat May 09, 2009 12:00 am wrote:
Your Kustoms to our Yorkvilles is like our Yorkvilles to Meyer. There's a world of difference which is why the Sydney Opera House and many many other top of the line venues use Meyer. We'd buy the Meyer but they are over 8 times the cost of Yorkville. I know a car is just a car but there is no comparison between a Yugo and a Lexus or Caddy.

That's it, I'm throwing my Yorkvilles in my Yugo and I'm heading to Indiana for the "Great North American Yorkville Kustom Shootout". :banger:

Sorry Jam, didn't mean to hijack, I just couldn't resist. By the way, those FBT Jolly 8's Joe mentioned do look interesting.
Author:  stogie [ Sat May 09, 2009 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Room Speakers
Actually I mentioned the Jolly 8 first, but what the hey. I think we're going to see and are already seeing growth in the 8" and 10" speaker market for a couple of reasons.
The manufacturers have figured out how to make small high quality, high
SPL speakers that sound great. Our aging population includes older performers and KJs who don't want to or can't lug around big, heavy speakers anymore. I'm one of them. And of course small audiences and small venues. I almost got a pair of Jolly 8s and I got the EV Zx1s instead. Hopefully I made the right decision. I just saw a pair of
EV Sx80 speakers on craig's list for $200 for the pair, but I'm kind of tapped out right now.
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