Karaoke Forums

I have someone who works with me on the nights I cannot cover the venue and I am getting consistent comments on how much better the sound is when I am there. I really didn't believe it at first and I thought they were just used to my jovial attitude and the quieter demeanor of my associate was the real issue.

The past few weeks I have gotten out of my appointments early enough to visit the venue. Turns out the folks were indeed right about the sound. He has a problem getting the vocals and music mix just right for the performance. He does fiddle with the gain but just doesn't have the same ear for it. It's very subtle but noticeable to the experienced ear, like those of the heavy duty songbirds.

What I am looking to do is take the microphone variable out of the equation. The board I have has built in compression (Yamaha 124cx), but I certainly don't hinge on it. I have been reading on compressor/limiters like the ALESIS 3630 or DBX 1046.

I'd like a piece of equipment that will make the mics as close to set & forget as possible for the most reasonable cost. I don't mind spending the buckage on something good but I'd like to spend as little as possible. I only use 2 mics so I need something that will do at least two channels, but would get something with 4 as a just in case.

Two questions:

1) Will the compressor/limiter, when properly set, do what I am outlining?

2) If so, what piece of equipment do you use/suggest/desire to posses?

This is a new area for me so any input would be appreciated.

I have 2 3630's if you want to pay shipping I'll give them to you. They are not set and forget. A DBX with an over easy button is more forgiving and sort of set and forget. Ive never used the 1046 but use the 266XL and it works good.

A vocal ranges from the quiets to to the louds. If you turn the vocal down to balance the louds with the music then you dont hear the quiets or full range and richness of the vocal. Compression decreases the range between the extreme quiets and louds. Now you can turn the vocal gain up and hear more of the whole range and more of the quiets.

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Nothing is fool proof, but it could help. Messing with the gains would indicate that perhaps he might not understand how things work. It is possible that your helper just doesn't have an ear for music. I have ran into that in the past. As far as different Compressors, yes the 266XL is good, I've also been hearing lots of good things about the TC Electronic C300, very good sound quality and about as close to set and forget your going to find. I'm seriously thinking about picking up three of them for myself. The price is right.
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... C+300/10/1
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... D=26019295

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I hate to say it but when you've got differing singers, there is no such thing as set it and forget it for a compressor. Quiet singers need a higher threshold and higher ratio, louder singers you want a less aggressive ratio and a lower threshold. There just is no substitute for an understanding of how compression works.

I can't find it online, but if you can find a copy of the article "Conquering Peaks" (I believe it was in Pro Audio Weekly a number of years back) it is the single best explanation of compression I've ever seen. Gives you pretty much step by step instructions for anything you'd want to use dynamic processing for. If you can get him a copy of that it would help.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

It occurs to me that I make it sound like it's needed just for him, it's not. I just listen better and adjust a bit quicker. I want to be able to make my workload easier and decrease the differences between him running things and me running things.

While I know there will be adjustments for each singer won't a limiter allow me to run things at a more consistent level? Mayhaps I misunderstand exactly how it works.

Karyoker please check you mailbox.

letitrip said it right, as usual. In fact, an operator who does not understand how to use a compressor is likely to end up with a worse result than a better one. For one, too much compression will force you to keep increasing the pre-amp gain, and as you keep doing that you raise the noise floor and pick up more feedback.

A limiter on vox channels is great to keep yourself from being surprised by screamers, not to mention avoiding speaker damage from dropped mics; but when a singer is hitting the limiter regularly, you should be reducing the mic gain or perhaps adjusting the compressor.

I have read negative remarks about those Alesis units on PSW, but karaoke is one of those special situations where a bad ___ is sometimes better than no ___ at all. I encourage you to take karyoker up and try them out. Hook them up in your garage or have your other guy come in sometime when there aren't customers in the bar and experiment with the compressor until you are both comfortable with it.

_________________
Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

I guess it just doesn't get any cheaper than that The 3630's can be a little temperamental, but over all they are reliable and not to bad sonically. I did have a bad experience with one once many years ago. It was one of those things where it sounded like the volume would change on it's own (it was suttle, one of those "does it sound different to you" kind of things), I finally tracked it down to a bad pot in a 3630.

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I used the 3630's for a couple years (all I could afford at the time) until I could upgrade to the dbx & Symetrix stuff I have now. They (3630) aren't much help IMO, you can get a little effectiveness out of them, but you need to be constantly tweaking them & are really nothing compared to the dbx 1046. The 1046 is a nice 1 space 4 channel that has a limiter built in limiter - nice feature for karaoke as it can be set so the signal will go no higher than that point!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

So you're saying don't bother with anything else just bite the bullet for the 1046?

Personally I would, it does cost a little more, but it's well worth the money. It will make a difference.
If you are only using 2 mics, the dbx 166XL would be my choice for decent quality.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

OK, regarding limiting, how does the equipment handle that? I am assuming it has a graceful limiter on it that doesn't sound like clipping but how effective is it.

I am assuming the 1046 has the least amount of singer to singer adjustments required. Is that true?

Most limiters are actually pretty audible when they kick it. It's about as close to a hard clip as you can get without actually being a clip. It's basically a very high ratio hard knee application of compression. When the limiter kicks in you'll know it. The audible effects vary somewhat from one unit to the next but it's there in all of them to some extent.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

If it's set correctly, you won't really even know it's on. But they aren't called brick wall limiters for nothing. They are really only going to engage once a certain threshold is reached. So most singers it most likely won't even kick in, but once that scream hits that mic, you'll be glad you had it. It will keep that loud vocal mixed fine wothout having to pull back on the fader at all.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

That's exactly what I'm looking for.