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Another newbie here......trying to upgrade to my second generation of equipment (up from the original cheapo all in one box).

The venue would be a church of approx 150 (utilizing 4 mics for vocals and CD input, have pioneer CDJ-100S) with a budget in the $1,500+- range. Also, the portability of the system is an issue as well.


After reading a lot of topics on this forum, I'm thinking of the following:
Powered Mixer: Yamaha EMX212S or ???
Speakers: RCF ART310....or....Yamaha S112V or ???
Also would consider the Yamaha Stagpas 500

Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts/recommendations!!

I have been using the YAMAHA EMX512 and would suggest in your situation that the Yamaha Powered Mixer along with the 12" Yamaha speakers would be a good fit.

There are plenty of options but you will be happy with the Yamaha set up
( I would NOT get the stage pass ) --Stick with the EMX212 and the SV112

The EMX212 wil not be enough power for 150 people in a loud/rock music environment. It may be adequate for church, but it isn't really enough to drive the S112V speakers. EMX512 will be a better fit.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

What is the audience's expectation of volume and clarity? I am not real clear on the application ... it seems to be half-way between karaoke and live sound. I do not think the S112V will be an adaquate FoH box. I suggest you spend money on the S215V (since you like the Yamaha club series) or buy a couple of cheap Kustom 215H.

I would not suggest you limit yourself to a powered mixer, either. It is cheaper in the short-term if you can get enough power out of one, but when I run karaoke or DJ for ~150 I use a lot more than a few hundred watts. My partners do one of their gigs with a powered mixer that is similar in output to the one you are looking at, at a bar with 50ish customers on a typical night, and it is seriously under-powered for that venue. They have been using a bigger, out-board amp for the past few weeks and customers can tell the difference.

Go buy some Behringer and Kustom stuff if you want to sound decent and stay within budget. Otherwise, you are going to have to spend substantially more for better brands, or make some painful sacrifices.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

What model #s would be recommed for the Behringer and Kustom brands.......mixer, amp, etc to match the Kustom 215H as suggested by jeffsw6?

do NOT EVER buy Behringer by choice it is sh1t

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Not that it matters in this thread, but I actually found something they make that works- the UC202 audio to MP3 converter.

That's about it, though. The lovely Enchantress is correct about the rest of their stuff.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

why sir you need snogging

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

As gambling is frowned on in most churches you probably want to stay away from the entry level type gear offered by Behringer and Kustom. Stick with the more reliable brands. You will need more power than the EMX212 can supply, the EMX512SC or even the EMX5014C would be able to supply the power you need. Attach a couple of the Yamaha S112V or S115V and you will have a decent system that would sound good and be reliable and even cover the "portable" aspect of your question. Don't be afraid to look for used gear from a reputable manufacturer. Craigslist is a good place to look. For example here is an add from my local Craigslist.

4 used yamaha C115V speakers for $600
Yamaha P5000S Power Amp $350 500@8ohms
Allen&Heath Mixwizzard 16:2 $700

Something like this would be a great starter system that would offer the ablity to expand in the future and retain it's value.

Here is a package deal for you at American Musical Supply
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i- ... 512SC-PAK2
If your church is going to have a Praise band then you may want to consider adding a small sub like the DB Sub 12.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

listen to London, he is one of the more technically minded folk who know what they are talking about. No offense to whoever is raving bout behringer but it simply isnt reliable

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Sorry to say this, but....anyone who "bashes" Behringer just for the name sake, loses a wee bit of my respect each time. I wish people would just use the "tongue-in-cheek" method of offering good advice, and not advice given on prejudiced views. I use Behringer stuff and have had great success and also get great compliments on my sound. I do agree that their return rate is higher than some of the other "name" brands, but most retailers who sell Behringer will warranty them. But, really this is another topic that has been hashed to death.

As far as the original OP, my simple advice is look around for some values on used equipment if all you have to spend is $1500. That budget won't allow for top end stuff brand new, but you could always get lucky. But I believe you are on the right track with "thinking" power mixers. That direction might save you a few dollars and also give much more ease of portability. As far as specific equipment to recommend, determine the features and functions that you will "need" on the mixer, and then if the board has what you need, then see if it fits into your budget. Some of the recommendations that have been given already are pretty solid. Good luck.

Scott

One more thing, most people forget to budget in things like cords, mics and any other accessories they need. And these things add up in a hurry. My speaker cords alone have cost me well over $500 (I do have several, though). But even basic cords just to start with, might still be in the hundreds of dollars these days. Copper is in hight demand, so the price of wiring is staggering.

MrScott, many of us, me included, have been Burned by Behringer (Hey, kool phrase there! !).

Lose all the respect you want from me. I've bought one of their mixers against direct advice from a couple of the members here... they warned me fair and square. Within a month I'd lost the FX. I did some searching around, and that particular mixer was notorious for bugs. I retired the mixer, and gave it to a friend so he could play around with it in his garage. This person was a member here for a long time. Very knowledgeable about equipment and how to care for it. Within a couple of months two of the channels went out, then one side of the speakers.

I've got two friends of mine that have tried their equipment as well, and found them wanting.

I don't bash Behringer just because it's a kool fad to have. I'm glad you're one of the lucky ones that's not been disappointed. But the sheer amount of returns of their equipment and my own personal story as well as the testimonial of two of my friends speaks volumes.

Behringer is junk.

Knightshow,,

Ok, you got a mixer that was junk. Does that mean that all of their mixers are faulty? No, I believe not. I own 3 different mixers, each with their own purpose. Haven't had a single issue with 2 of the three, the other one, yes, had a small problem. But the problem just "went away", all on its own. Luck? Probably. The one that is currently in use as my daily unit (Xynyx 1832FX) has been totally problem free. Ok, as with ALL brands,,,in EVERY industry,,(Ford, Toyota, Hewlitt Packard,,,on and on) you will get lemons. But that does NOT mean that the entire line of their products are faulty. Behringer serves a purpose to those out there who otherwise cannot afford higher end equipment. I actually LIKE my sound, and I get great revues from some pretty qualified people as well.

Does Behringer have its issues? Absolutely! But so does Mackie, Peavey, Yamaha, Allen & Heath,,,,the list goes on. For a person who has a tight budget, as the OP says they do, then Behringer is a good consideration. I am one of these types of people that really have big issues when someone lumps ALL of something into one category. Just like stereotyping and rascism. Same philosophy to me. All i'm saying here is, make a good decision based on facts, not feelings.

To the OP-- Behringer isn't as horrid as some people would like you to believe. No, it's not top of the line stuff. But it will do the job just fine. If there is a problem with any equipment, just return it (if possible). But again, take your time and make good decisions based on your own needs.

Scott

dahlin I wont go losing sleep over your lack of respect for me and my opinions. Here in NZ where everything is way overpriced and repairs take time, it is beyond stupid to purchase anything from a company with a track record like behringer.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I don't purchase "named" big ticket items, I purchase reliability. I too have to produce sound on a budget, so not all of us who deride Behringer are name conscious. My speakers probably cost no more than the equivalent Behringer...but they are workhorses that never let me down and are backed by a company who know the meaning of customer service.
Oh and for the record the very first bargain rig I owned (had it for 11 years) I sold just prior to xmas still in pristine condition, so nothing of mine is purchased on a whim or on a name...everything I own pays its way and owes me nothing

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Not sure what that is, but if it's what I'm thinking, I most certainly do!

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

A believe that something can function and still fall into the catagory of "Junk".
I don't believe anyone bashes Behringer just because it's "the thing to do". It's because most have had hands on experience with the manufacturer and are less than satisfied with the results, myself included. Reputations are "earned" not given. You mention you have a Behringer Xenyx 1832fx, I have hands on experience with that particular mixer as I used to own one. I never intended it to be used for FOH duties, it was purchased to fill a need for a monitor mixer. Even though I sold mine before it developed any major problems I found it to be a very poor mixer with sub standard pre amps, weak EQ section, pretty much unusable FX section, the graphic was a joke as well as it's feedback section. The bottom line is it is a low cost mixer because it uses low cost labor with low quality parts and practically no quality control. As a product is a sum of it's parts and procedures, this is not a formula for reliability and sonic purity.

Perhaps you could clarify this. Most are aware that Mackie has been suffering a little set back as of late but certainly not to the extent as Behringer. As far as Peavey, Yamaha and Allen & Heath having "issue's". This would be news to most of us and perhaps you could supply links to support such claims. To the best of my knowledge Peavey has a reputation of perhaps not being the most pristine mixer you could buy, but certainly solid and reliable. Mackie (until recently) and Yamaha have a reputation of above average sonic quality and reliability in their price range. Allen & Heath has a reputation of superior sound quality and top notch reliability and build quality. I have "hands on experience" with all the brands mentioned and my opinions are of course open to debate, but I think most here will agree that these are the "reputations" these companies have "earned". Just like Behringer has "earned" it's "reputation".

You are not the first person to try and defend Behringer here and you probably won't be the last. I will say that there are a few here that used to defend them but have since moved onto better gear and finally understand the difference. If you are making money off your sound then you owe it to yourself and your customers to try to supply the best sound you can within reason. Yes Mackie and Yamaha cost a little more, but just a little more for their entry level gear. Certainly within the budget of the most modest of companies, especially if hiring out for sound.

You don't have to respect me or anyone that even has similar beliefs, but you probably better hope you never have to setup next to myself or any of my type at any multi event venue. As mentioned, you don't have to respect me, but you will respect my business partners, Mr Allen, Mr. Heath and Mr. Yorkville.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Wink, I stand by my previous recommendations. you said you wanted to upgrade, you don't have to buy the best, but you also should stay away from the cheapest. Your sound quality , function, reliability and resale will take a hit if you do.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I have owned & worked with over 8 different modelsfrom the MX series, UB series & XEYNX series. I don't bash Behringer for name sake purpose, I bash them for real life experience & personal hands on usage. I have owned a couple boards myself, my last one because of my own stupidity in reading how much they had changed & bought the UB2442PRO. Within 6 months & had 3 channels dead & the effects section dead. Tried getting it repaired & had a HUGE trouble with customer service. Finally got it fixed & sold that day for $100. The new owner has said now 6 channels are dead & the effect again! The other boards I worked with experienced similar problems from minor to worse. The ONLY board I have worked on that seemed somewhat reliable is the MX8000 recording board that they had to discontinue selling in the states due to a direct infringement on Mackies 24*8*2 board which they basically stole & copied - down to the point where parts were interchangeable.

Sorry, if you have luck with them, consider yourself one of the few lucky. I would never seriously recommend for pro use. Home use on occasion if the budget deems necessary. Not looking for respect on this issue, just passing on real life personal experience as well that has NEVER ONCE resulted in a positive review. I have several friends at my local Guitar Center & they tell me Behringer is THE highest returned item of anything else in the store. No wonder why a real pro audio company like Sweetwater doesn't even bother with them.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I am not sure why you guys turned this guy's thread into a Behringer bashing one, given that people often say on this forum, to the effect of, "...you could buy a behringer xyz if you can't afford something nicer..." and it doesn't usually turn into 10 posts of ranting.

It's not going to be a professional sound reinforcement system for $1500. Hopefully he gets something good enough to get the job done while staying within the budget of his church / band / whatever. This is why I said something to the effect of, for $1500 you are going to have to buy some Behringer and Kustom to get it done. Cinderella deals on Craigslist do happen, but I wouldn't tell every person who has an unrealistically small budget "wait for a steal on Craigslist!"

I also wouldn't back up my opinions with those of the staff of a Guitar Center. As I recall, a poster recently said his local GC sales person told him they saw a lot of returns on A&H, and someone on this board cared so much that they called up the A&H rep to ask if it was true.

I don't know why the OP would care whether or not Sweetwater carries a product, either. Yes, SW does not offer Behringer. Most other online & mail order outfits do sell Behringer. I am not a SW customer in large part because they don't sell Behringer. Does it hurt my feelings? No. But I buy enough Behringer stuff that it doesn't really make sense for me to use a distributor who doesn't sell that brand.

Having a sound system, even a cheap one, is better than not having one at all. One of the most talented local musicians I know sold all his guitars and audio gear to feed his drug habit. It sucks because now he can't even go out and play music to earn money. I don't care if he has a nice guitar or microphone, or cheap ones. If he had them at all, I would listen to him perform. I bet the members of the OP's church don't care if it says Behringer on the box or not. I guess you won't listen to a band if their drums don't say TAMA or Pearl?

I don't regret spending money on Behringer, even though I have some Behringer products that have gone out on me. Guess what, I eventually replace them with nicer gear as I earn enough money from music to pay for it. One of the smartest local sound guys I know started his business on Behringer stuff. He did not like it, but now he has gigs almost every weekend, does recording in his home studio, and he makes enough money from it that he now does bar gigs on a Venice 240. Behringer serves a purpose. I don't see Sweetwater going out of business because they refuse to carry Behringer, and I doubt Harman will go bankrupt because some people buy EP2500s instead of XLS amps.

Sheesh. Some people.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ