Karaoke Forums

Greetings all,

Have anyone had a chance to play with the new QSC K10/K12 series (ABS) powered speakers and better yet to compare these to the veteran 12" HPR122i series (wood)?
I am actually considering getting a pair of the new K10/K12 series for their light weight and overall excellent sound reproduction quality based on a few feedback from people who went to the last QSC exhibition.

Price wise, the HPR122i (60lbs) can be had for $700/ea ($800-$100 rebate) and the new K10 (32lbs) for $630/ea (after 10% off + free ship at nlfxpro) so not a big difference b/w the two.

By the way, just want to share with other members on this board, nlfxpro is giving out a 10% off coupon on any new QSC K series that can be ordered online or over the phone. Don't know if I can post the coupon code here but any member can just PM me for the code.

I toyed with a K8 floor model a bit at a Guitar Center with a sales associate. Clean and loud and light and small would describe it. We listened to several music and instrument type tracks. I could easily substitute one for the sound of two 10" Eons. The K8 having much better clarity and not to mention the sub response that is missing from the 2nd gen EON 10s. The K8 low end punch makes up for the overall volume due to a selectable "DEEP" setting which is not to mention that these things are loud to say the least! Another switch allows a "FLAT" or "VOCAL BOOST" setting. There's a mixer function built in with 2 XLR ins and an RCA stereo L/R in. There was also modular connect for a potentiomer hookup to remotely control the gain. I listened to it clipped but didn't hear the crackle you hear with the EONs. I couldn't even hear a clip even though the clip light came on. There's additional protection for the amp and speakers built in as well. The K8 was about 20 lbs or so. I'd imagine the K12s will slightly outperform the 2nd gen EON 15s. I would use just one for lounge karaoke since it's rated at 1000 Watts. Two K8s, 10s or 12s I guess would be near to a full rock club sound setup and you'd need a sub or two for a serious dance club. Good luck trying to get one. The pickin's are slim for the time being. They said If I don't order one they had from a busier store (if it's actually in stock), it might take about two months to get another shipment in. The k8 was priced about $650 on up to about a grand for the sub. The sales guy said he was deaf after listening to the K8 and with all that I was nauseous with ringing ears. I think it's definitely worth the wait.

It's says 1000 watts for the K series Even the K8 with an 8" has a 1000 watts, sure
I think it's to good to be true, I'd like to know the real power on these speakers

Thanks for the feedback. I'll go check at GC if they have these demo on floor.
By the way, "KSERIES" is the 10% off coupon code for any K speakers at nlfxpro.com, valid online or via phone order. Just got an email from "Ben the hookup" that the K are in stock - free ship too. Just call and tell Ben that you get the code from karaoke-forum. WildFins.

A link below has some discussion on this. A comparison is made based on the specs where:
QSC K=1000 peak & Max SPL=127 , EON=560 peak & Max SPL=121

The spec says 2X500 so it looks like the transducers have separate amps.
So it's probably 250 continuous to each transducer.
Again they do sound too good to be true. And not to mention someone doing what I've been trying to do and go over the top with it made me nauseous. It seemed to defy physics. I'd guess that some companies underrate their specs and some are overrated.

http://start.prodj.com/showthread.php?t=48859

BTW there are some K Series demos on Youtube but I would ultimately listen for myself in person.

How do you get JD to show up? Post a topic with QSC in the subject.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

You might want to add "Rekus-Heinz" and "Bose linear arrays" those are my favorites!.

A QSC rep in one of the pro sound forums said that it made economic sense to load this whole series with fairly identical 500 watt amps that share a common power supply, even though the 8" version and the compression drivers don't need that much power, rather than design a bunch of separate amps. And as a byproduct it does produce eye-popping specs for marketing.

I haven't seen or heard the K8 yet, but everyone who has say that they defy the laws of physics.

I find them to be expensive to be honest These are actually 1000w peak, 500w program & 250w RMS I still think I get a better deal with my EV ZX1 combined to a Crown XTi 2000 I get more power, I have a digital Crossover/Eq/Limiter and most important, I get the EV sound quality

[/quote]I find them to be expensive to be honest These are actually 1000w peak, 500w program & 250w RMS I still think I get a better deal with my EV ZX1 combined to a Crown XTi 2000 I get more power, I have a digital Crossover/Eq/Limiter and most important, I get the EV sound quality [/quote]

They are priced too cheap. $649 for something whose performance exceeds the JBL EON is definitely selling it short. You can get EV sound quality but are you getting quality sound? it could be a lot of SPL mush coming out of EV sound quality speakers. The K series are unforgiving in that you hear what's going into them. Maybe not for karaoke mixes after all. A powered speaker with processing in terms of efficiency, response, transducer protection atc. can't be beat with a separate speaker and amp. sure it'll be louder but muddier too and you'll be cooking your speakers too. Not to mention electric bill the house will be paying.

I'm still wondering how you guys come up with 250W RMS. I'd like to know. How do you figure the difference between RMS and continuous anyway?

I think QSC should just post the full specs on the amp in the K Series. I think if manufacturers would just post honest specs that would go a long way to gain customer loyalty.

I'm sure the QSC marketing department would probably disagree.

Is there a discrepancy in their published spec?

SPL@1 meter K8:127dB peak, K10:129dB peak, K12:131dB peak, KSub:130dB peak.
All amps putting out 1000 watts peak. Where is it?

The 1000W rating refers to the power amplifier, this is how all powered speakers are described by the manufacturers. So to compare, the QSC KSub is 1000W a Mackie SWA-1501 is 500W a JBL EON 518S is 500W.

Speaking specifically of the sub (just the easiest example to use), my guess is that the amp is pushing 1000W (500W/side) through 2 4 ohm loads. Meanwhile the Mackie power amp is pushing 500W through a single 8 ohm speaker. So the amplifiers aren't that much different. So you've got a smaller cab and two small speakers versus a larger cab with a single but larger speaker powered by similar amplifiers all for about the same price. Seems like the pricing is pretty much on par with what one would expect.

As far as the comparison of your two ways to this, I don't think you're right. Your crown only pushes 475W/channel into those EV's (since they're 8 ohm loads and by the way they are 200W RMS, 400 Program and 800 peak), so about 950W total. As already pointed out, these QSC's are going at 500W into both the driver and the woofer on each speaker. So that's 2000W total power at the amplifier. Plus I could go on for hours about the benefits of active cross-overs and how they're everything (Amp, crossover, speaker) is tuned by design to work together as efficiently as posssible.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Well, I must be getting something wrong here If the QSC's are 250w rms at 8 ohms, that's the max they can drive when the build in amp is pushed to the limit, right? So my Crown has 475 w rms at 8 ohms OK, my EV can only take 200w rms but in reality, we all know they can take more Not sure you know the Crown XTI very well? It has a digital crossover and I've set it to 120HZ and up for my tops EV and my active sub has it's on crossover which is anything under 120HZ. Also, the Crown has a limiter which is a good thing for my 200w rms, so I've set it up to -12db for now just to be on the safe side This amp will let me do more than having active speakers.

I don't want to get it the debate of active versus passive speakers, but with todays light weight amps (18lbs for my Crown) I think it makes more sence to go passive for the speakers and get a more powerful amp and lightweight EV speakers:wink: Hey, it's only my opinion

The K series at NLFX show $104 shippign for me. Not free HMMMM

[/quote]If the QSC's are 250w rms at 8 ohms, that's the max they can drive when the build in amp is pushed to the limit, right?[/quote]
For one, there's no such thing as an rms rating, it's "continuous".
So if you plug in pink or white noise you'd get 250 W continuous.
1000 W peak is more accurate and practical in terms of program material.
It has some SPL (Sound Pressure Level) kick.

[/quote]So my Crown has 475 w rms at 8 ohms[/quote]
475 W continuous at what frequency and for how long?
[/quote]OK, my EV can only take 200w rms but in reality, we all know they can take more[/quote]
Again 200 W continuous at what frequency and for how long. I'd bet money on it that you'll start seeing transducer degradation and derating after awhile.

[/quote]Not sure you know the Crown XTI very well? It has a digital crossover and I've set it to 120HZ and up for my tops EV and my active sub has it's on crossover which is anything under 120HZ.[/quote]This in no way can guarantee proper efficiency, clarity(less distortion),and a flat frequency response.

[/quote]Also, the Crown has a limiter which is a good thing for my 200w rms, so I've set it up to -12db for now just to be on the safe side This amp will let me do more than having active speakers.[/quote]A limiter can roast your speakers. Running a speaker at a more continuous level close to the limits can damage them.

[/quote]I don't want to get it the debate of active versus passive speakers, but with todays light weight amps (18lbs for my Crown) I think it makes more sence to go passive for the speakers and get a more powerful amp and lightweight EV speakers:wink: Hey, it's only my opinion [/quote]

I think you've unwittingly provided a case for active speakers.

I'm thinking you don't know your speakers very well. They're two way speakers that are not bi-amp-able (at least to my knowledge) which means regardless of what your amp does, there is an internal crossover (passive crossover) somewhere between 1.6 and 2 kHz (in most cases) that splits the signal between your horn and your woofer. In a powered speaker this is an active crossover that is way more capable than any internal passive crossover.

Where do you get the impression that the QSC amps in the K series are rated at 250 W? Most amplifiers when they give a peak rating are talking about continuous power, so this would mean the QSC amps in the K series more power than your crown.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I got the 250 W from the link that JD provided:

http://start.prodj.com/showthread.php?t=48859

I don't know if it's true, I've never heard these K series... As for the crossover in my EV, I don't know why you bring this up Of course I know they are not bi-amp and that they have a build in passive crossover but what does that have anything to do with the subject On paper, active crossover is superior, bi-amp is better, more power is better but what really matters is what you hear so of course I can't comment on the K series and I do believe they sound good, QSC is a respected brand but I personally don't agree with their marketing strategy!

I think this guy provided the good information on JD's link:

HippyDog ... the numbers
are not that hard to figure out. Amplifiers are rated in several ways. The most common nowadays is to measure the output at 1KHZ. The power is often stated as continuous (rms), program and peak. The way the math works out they can just measure the RMS, double that to get Program, double that to get Peak. The logic is that a speaker can often handle much more than it's rating for milli-seconds. Music has fast peaks that will cause the amp (which can also brieftly exceed it's rating) to put out quite a bit of power. So amps that are being used to drive speakers hard need headroom. The K series are obviously stated as peak power of 1000 watts. Divide that twice to get the most likely RMS and we get 250watts RMS. For that type of speaker, that is good power and about what it needs. So the EON's 280 compares favorably to the K series 250. Both active and passive speakers use crossovers which send about 80% of the power to the woofer and the rest to the tweet. The key with power amps is to always have plenty of power. Most DJs that you see with lousy sounding systems are probably underpowering. QSC recommends a minimum of 2 times RMS of the speaker for rock, hiphop and other bass intensive music. An exeption would be if you are using subs to handle the power hungry low end. You probably could get away with matching the amp rms to the speaker in this situation although it's not ideal .... I love both QSC and Crown for providing us with lightweight, compact powerful amps! The days of needing 4 roadies to carry gear has come to an end. FYI ... the newest compact amp from Crown, the XTI 6000 can put out 6000 watts in bridged mode! My goodness!

Regarding <Both active and passive speakers use crossovers which send about 80% of the power to the woofer and the rest to the tweet.>

This is true in most instances. However on the K Series, the power is divided as 2x500W. The HF will probably never use it, but it makes for a lot of headroom when you want to push the box hard.