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Power Distribution
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16701		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Zonerc [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Power Distribution
Im after getting a Power Distribution to put in my rack to tidy every thing up by the way im in the UK so will be looking for 240v .Now ive looked at a few but they have differant amp ratings and am wondering what i will need .
i need to connect at least
1 X A&H Zed 12fx
2 X DBX 266xl Compressors
1 X Driverack PA
1 X Vocopro 5800 mic reciever
1 X Behringer EP2500 Amp
as its 16U rack there maybe more things added later.
I have my Laptop and 2 hard drives but i disconect them anyway so they can plug elsewhere and the TV as will lights and as i keep them on seperate circuit.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Mon May 25, 2009 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
zonerc @ Mon May 25, 2009 10:08 am wrote:
Im after getting a Power Distribution to put in my rack to tidy every thing up by the way im in the UK so will be looking for 240v .Now ive looked at a few but they have differant amp ratings and am wondering what i will need .
i need to connect at least
1 X A&H Zed 12fx
2 X DBX 266xl Compressors
1 X Driverack PA
1 X Vocopro 5800 mic reciever
1 X Behringer EP2500 Amp
as its 16U rack there maybe more things added later.
I have my Laptop and 2 hard drives but i disconect them anyway so they can plug elsewhere and the TV as will lights and as i keep them on seperate circuit.

I have a similar collection and amount of equipment, and use two of the low-cost Furman power "conditioners". One with lights, one without. I plug the amp, TV, and RF modulator into one, and the rest into the other. I always make sure to turn off the one with the amp first, very important with the Driverack PA.

You probably could get away with one and a couple of y-cables to combine power for the compressors and mic/crossover. Just make sure you get into the habit of turning off the amp power first.

Spending more on the power "conditioner" is not worth it, because nothing less than $500.00 or so does any amount of real conditioning.
Author:  Zonerc [ Mon May 25, 2009 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
seems like the Furman stuff it harder to get here in the UK or is expensive ,there are other makes but some are 8amp/10amp/15amp would i need to go for the highest or could i get away with something like
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BEHRINGER-PL2000- ... 7C294%3A50
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Mon May 25, 2009 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
mckyj57 @ Mon May 25, 2009 11:58 am wrote:
zonerc @ Mon May 25, 2009 10:08 am wrote:
You probably could get away with one and a couple of y-cables to combine power for the compressors and mic/crossover. Just make sure you get into the habit of turning off the amp power first.

You can get power distributors which have sequential power-up/down. I just got two Monster Power Center 3500s for about $200 each from buy.com, and they have this feature. The 4 "digital equipment" outlets come on first, and go off last. After a delay of about 3 seconds, there are 4 "analog equipment" outlets that go on/off. Finally there are 4 "high current" (like amplifiers) outlets that turn on last, and turn off first.

As far as cables go, I found some really handy cords with 1 input plug, and 2 IEC connectors. They are nice for reducing the cable mess inside your rack.

Quote:
Spending more on the power "conditioner" is not worth it, because nothing less than $500.00 or so does any amount of real conditioning.

Some pretty smart folks recently told me the best thing to get for "power conditioning" is a UPS such as those you would buy for a computer. Anything else is just an over-priced surge protector. Including the Monster things I gave $200 for! ;) I really needed the volt & amp meters though for crazy mobile gigs where it's difficult to find out if other things are on the same breaker as me. This way I can prove I am not stupidly drawing too much power, and have more ammo when I need help from the venue operator to get a useful power circuit.
Author:  Micky [ Mon May 25, 2009 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
That's what I'm using to protect my equipment:

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductP ... _Id=163009

You can spend more but you'll be spending for nothing :roll: I got this one for $50.00 at Costco Canada :wink:
Author:  LondonLive [ Mon May 25, 2009 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
Here is the legendary link that has been alluded to previously. Please note the proper use of the word Vicki. :lol: I think it pretty much summed it up.
http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic. ... onditioner
Author:  mckyj57 [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
jeffsw6 @ Mon May 25, 2009 7:50 pm wrote:
mckyj57 @ Mon May 25, 2009 11:58 am wrote:
Spending more on the power "conditioner" is not worth it, because nothing less than $500.00 or so does any amount of real conditioning.

Some pretty smart folks recently told me the best thing to get for "power conditioning" is a UPS such as those you would buy for a computer. Anything else is just an over-priced surge protector.

This is true, but the problem is that a UPS that will handle the load of a high-powered audio system is not only expensive but heavy.
Author:  JD [ Tue May 26, 2009 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
Quote:
Spending more on the power "conditioner" is not worth it, because nothing less than $500.00 or so does any amount of real conditioning.

Some pretty smart folks recently told me the best thing to get for "power conditioning" is a UPS such as those you would buy for a computer. Anything else is just an over-priced surge protector. Including the Monster things I gave $200 for! ;) I really needed the volt & amp meters though for crazy mobile gigs where it's difficult to find out if other things are on the same breaker as me. This way I can prove I am not stupidly drawing too much power, and have more ammo when I need help from the venue operator to get a useful power circuit.[/quote]


Is "conditioning" adding an ac surge suppression device or is it actually dealing with ac line fluctuations? "Power conditioning" in the Furman Karaoke world and the ac power world are two different things.
there are three issues here:
1. current monitoring
2. voltage monitoring
3. detecting what circuit or phase you're on.
I would talk to a certified or contract electrician first and review any products available. Otherwise it may be something an electrical engineer may build for a rack or such.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
mckyj57 @ Mon May 25, 2009 10:58 pm wrote:
This is true, but the problem is that a UPS that will handle the load of a high-powered audio system is not only expensive but heavy.

I agree with you, and that's actually why I did not buy UPSes for my signal processing equipment. Now that I have been told it's a good idea by so many smart people, I will probably invest in them eventually; but it's low on the priority list.

The same folks also said don't bother putting your power amps on anything more than a surge protector, if even that. The serious pros put half a million watts of super expensive amps directly on mains power when they do the big concerts, and I would think they would be the sort of people to know how to protect their investment in equipment.

So it is not too expensive to get a UPS just for your mixer, EQs, compression, FX, etc. And it is not a bad idea to plug your amps right into the wall.

I do like voltage & current monitoring on my monsters, in fact that is why I bought them. I do not know why anyone would want to know what phase they are on (I see mention of that in JD's post) and you can buy a test tool for < $100 at a hardware store to help you determine if two outlets are on the same circuit or not.

I wouldn't bother asking an electrician about any of this. Electricians are useful for two things: pulling conduit/cable, and making sure you don't make mistakes that put your building / installation out of code. Beyond that, 90% of them have no clue.
Author:  Zonerc [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
So with all this talk about conditioners and the like anyone know what amp pdu i would need with the selection i posted in the first post ,dont want to spends lots of money on something i dont need .
Author:  Bazza [ Tue May 26, 2009 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
jeffsw6 @ Mon May 25, 2009 7:50 pm wrote:
Some pretty smart folks recently told me the best thing to get for "power conditioning" is a UPS such as those you would buy for a computer.


Only if it is a true "on-line" sine-wave UPS. Most consumer UPS units are not and only work their magic when the power actually fails. The rest of the time it's straight through GIGO.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
A lot of the newer online stuff, e.g. in the last 10 years, is step-wave based on switching power supplies. So even if you buy an "online" UPS you may not be getting a sine wave. I have some MGE units like this.
Author:  JD [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
A UPS is a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply). They are mostly bought for computers when the power goes out. But some higher powered ones can be had at Home Depot to keep power going to your house in case of an outage.

A Power Conditioning Unit (PCU) maintains your ac supply to counter fluctuating mains. These can weigh tons and have a large transformer with switching taps.

A power strip usually has an MOV (metal oxide varister) in it to suppress spikes. Add a little bit fancier ac filtering and you got a Furman "Power Conditioner."

In some instances you can run into hum and interference on different circuits. Combining ac from different legs can cause bad consequences if it occurs. There are also ground loop issues.

To distribute power you figure on your voltage and what your current draw is. Your ac line cables should be properly rated for that voltage and current and your circuit from the breaker should support that.

Measure the voltage and current draw for either each piece of equipment or a group of connected equipment on your mains supply side. Then you can figure what your requirements are and see if you mains supply circuit will work.
Author:  fsapienjr [ Wed May 27, 2009 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
I wouldn't go with anything smaller than a 15Amp. Doesn't make any sense to go any smaller, and more importantly, it is just a standard plug here in the US. A 20Amp plug won't go into a standard outlet, it has a notch on one of the conductors to prevent it from plugging into the wrong outlet.

You can calculate what current is drawn from the total of your system, just add the amps from them all together. Unless the price is horrible, just get the 15Amp.

Felix the KJ
8)
Author:  Zonerc [ Wed May 27, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
thanks fsapienjr for the straight forward post to my original question .
anything here bigger than the 15 amp is the same here too ,has a big bkue round plug.
Author:  LondonLive [ Wed May 27, 2009 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
I was looking at your dilemma the other day, apparently your EP2500 can draw as much as 8 amps all by itself. I couldn't find the vital stats on your DBX gear or the Allen Heath but I would suspect you are going to be very close to the 15 amp limit. Can we assume that you have been using all this gear on one line without a conditioner so far? If so one 15 amp may be enough. If you are trying to avoid using a 20 amp conditioner, you may want to use two 15 amp units just to be safe especially if you will be adding more gear later. I know very few smaller places I've been to actually have 20 amp receptacles available. It seems that entertainment is always an afterthought in most venues.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Wed May 27, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
The A&H ZED series draws under 50 watts. You could look up the power requirements of all those other devices as well, but my guess is the DriveRack PA consumes the most at < 25 watts. So all your signal processing is easily under 2 amps at 220.

I think I posted this earlier, but if not: you can always hook your amp directly into the house power if you do not have enough room on your power distributor for it.
Author:  Zonerc [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
well i ordered the phonic ppc 9000 e power conditioner from dv village
http://www.dv247.com/invt/32678/
which did advertise it at 15 amp 8 output and it was delivered yesterday ,but they got there details wrong ,it is a 10 amp 10 output ,rang them so getting it returned ,they now changed the advert.
moral of the story read round alot about anything you think of buying from one place to make sure they have not got it wrong.
Author:  Zonerc [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
really struggling to find a 19" power distribution thats over 10amp total ,even some of the more expensive ones are only 10amp .found this one on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Showtec-DJ-Switch ... 7C294%3A50
but not sure if it will be ok for the job seems quite cheap.
I know alot of you from US keep saying about furman ones but they are just not available over here in the UK or just way to expensive.
Author:  fsapienjr [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Power Distribution
Furman is definately the most popular model here in the US. I am using an American Audio PDP-850.
http://www.adjaudio.com/product.asp?Pro ... stribution

It has 7 protected outlets and one unprotected on the rear, and one protected outlet on the front. Each outlet has a 15 amp max, and the unit has a 20Amp breaker. I have my entire system plugged into it. When doing private parties, my lights go on another circuit. Only cost $80 here. I think I got mine for $65.

Felix the KJ
8)
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