Karaoke Forums

The Mission if you choose to accept.
Build the Best Sounding PA System with a budget of $2,000
(excluding Cables and Wires and cases )

System should be able to handle Small to Large Bar type venues.

Amp
Mixer
Speakers
Monitors
Effects ( on board or not)
Processors ETC
3 microphones (wired or not )

Let's see what you come up with add or delete any components you want.

For an absolute $2000 budget for PA only (no player or music).
B-52 Matrix 1000
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=606060
Would probably try to save up for a QSC powered system, but for the budget, this would definitely get one going & still sound decent.

Yamaha MG124CX
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=630142


Would prefer 3 Shure SM58, but would go with the Sennheiser 835 3 pack.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=270831

Would be willing to give this one a shot. Some kind of monitor is better than none. Would probably try to find something used though that I know will sound good.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=582089


BBE Sonic Maximizer
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=180910
2 dbx 266XL compressors
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=183515

All for about $2000 give or take for misc items like cables which would add probably no more than $100.

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^^^ Close to what I would do, but Id use these powered speakers: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-MAC-SRM450V2-LIST?SRC=D0403NX0HAMS0000&utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=feed&

Drop the monitor

Drop the Sonic Maximizer

Comes out to $2020. Not a full set-up with all possible elements, but relatively quality for only spending two grand.

Nearly the budget of what I started with. Here are my calls after a lot of thought:

2 Yamaha S115V speakers (http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMS115V) - $370 ea ($740)
1 QSC GX5 - $400
1 Yamaha MG124CX mixer - $290
3 - Behringer XM8500 Microphones - $60
1 DBX Driverack PA - $350

Totals out to $1820.

Now I went with a small monitor, the Mackie SRM 150, because it was a good little item to carry back when I was just goofing around on my own. I yuse it now in shows because I have it and there is enough bass from the mains to not have it sound tinny. Having nearly $200 to spend on a monitor, I would try and pick up something larger like the Behringer Lonman suggested.

Hey Lonman, like your set up. Very close to what I actually have, but I'm using the JBL Eons...

I'm curious about the Gate you included as I might want to add it to my system... I was reading it, but I'm not sure what it will do for me... can you give me a quick tech run down on why I need it?

Thanks,

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Here is mine after some thought:
Allen & Heath ZED-12FX USB Mixer with Effects $499
Crown XLS 802D Power Amplifier $599
Yamaha S115V 2-Way 15" Club Series V Speaker Pair $698
Sennheiser e815S Microphone 3-Pack $130
Behringer EUROLIVE F1220A 12" 125W Powered Monitor $200
Total Above = $2,126

1st additions
BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer $99.00
Peavey PV 215EQ Graphic Equalizer 99.00

Well I wouldn't use the gate part on it as it's more designed to turn the signal off at a certain point - more designed for live instrument mic'ing - say there is a squeaky drum pedal that you do not want to mic the squeak, so you set the gate to not open until the actual hit of the drum, then closes shortly after. Or a buzzing guitar, you only want to set it so the buzz isn't heard, but the actual playing is. A gate has no real purpose in karaoke.
The compressor on the otherhand does, which is what I would use it for. Helps to keep those screamer singers in check so you aren't having to ride the fader when they pop off. Keeping the volume levels of the vocal more at a constant through their normal & loud passages.

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Doesn't the Yamaha MG124cx handle that at the mixer level?

Basically, i'd prefer a little more control.

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Lonnie,

Doesn't that yamaha mixer have built in compression? If it does, then why would you add the DBX compressor to the system? You could take that money spent and spend it on better speakers. I have a friend who owns that exact speaker setup (B 52's), and I might say I think they sound horrid at best. The sub is OK, easy to set up, but the mains are really "tinny". I have used hers before, and I honestly hated them, no matter how I tried to EQ them. Also, the Behringer monitor you thought to try, is one of the pieces of Behringer equipment I myself cannot recommend. I have heard them too, and they really lack good sound. You are right tho,,, any monitor is better than none.

Scott

Like said I prefer the better compression of the outboard, the built in on the mixer is just a real basic, it will work if you have nothing, but not as well as a good outboard.

I've used them before & never thought they were all that bad sounding, but then the system I was working with was using the Driverack in a medium sized room with no harsh reflective surfaces. But have used them in smaller shows for bands & they always sounded fine as well.

I never used this one, just was trying stay on track for budget - and even stated I would probably get something used that I KNOW will sound good.

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Ok, that's what I was trying to figure out. I have the MG166CX Yamaha board... with digital compression at the board, and was trying to figure where the Gate came in. I think better speakers or Shure mics would be the better way to spend the money.

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Well it's not digital compression, it is analog (but so are the externals) - the one on the Yamaha is a one knob, pre-set for basic use. No adjustment to the ratio or threshold. Makes a BIG difference in the vocals with being able to have more control of the compressor. But like the monitor, a little built in compressor is better than none at all & may be all some would really need. Again, I was just trying to stay in a budget - if it were me starting all over, i'd personally opt to save up for what I would really want & not go through the get me by stage - but if that was my only option, i'd still go for the external compressors. Thinking about it more I would probably change out the mixer entirely to the Mackie PROFX12. Slightly better pre-amps on the mic channels. Plus 3 band eq on the stereo channels & USB interfaceable.

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There is no right or wrong choices, I just thought the excerise would give people a perspective on the options out there. Like I choose the AH mixer which is more expensive than say the Mackie or Yamaha - Thinking that a better mixer might able me to delete a maximizer etc. BUT I KNOW NOTHING .
I like the Yamaha speakers cause I actually used them in the past and thought they were great ( not the best but good). In retrospect I should probably go for a less expensive mixer and upgrade the mics to the SM58's .

If you had to prioritize the chain of components to what is the most important to great sound how would that look?? Like all things considered equal , would power amps would be the least important ???
#1) mixer
#2) speaker
#3) microphone
#4) power amp

1 - Mixer
2 - Speakers
3 - Amp
4 - Mics

I would actually put the amp & speakers equally, but an amp can make a significant difference in the sound especially pushing the proper power, but the speakers need to be equally fitting to the amp.

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Let me rephrase - All things equal except for the power amps
How much difference to the overall sound will one mfg be from another -just talking SOUND WISE not durability etc. Assuming the power ratings were the same
ie 500w x 2 @ 8ohms.

If you're going to buy a power amp - does it make a "SOUND" difference between CROWN or QSC - PEAVEY - etc ?

Very good question I'd say yes but I'll let the expert give their opinions

Given two amps that push 500 watts per channel into 8 ohms (or close to) - lets say a low end Behringer EP2500 & something quality like a QSC PLX1804 that pushes 600 watts per channel (closest the PLX line pushes equivalent) - YES it WILL make a difference in the over all sound ENOUGH to warrant the extra money - most people don't want to spend the money to find out is the sad thing.
I won't say name brands necessarily makes a difference as each manu does have their own low end lines - so no going from one manu to another won't necessarily be the big difference is sound, however the individual MODELs from each brand CAN make a difference. The QSC RMX line is still better than the Behringer EP line even though they are basically clones, but the QSC PLX models will blow both away soundwise! A Crown XL series amp will NEVER touch the performance & sound quality of a Crown Macro series amp. A Peavey PV series amp is not going to touch the sound quality of the CS series amp. They all may get loud, but the actual sound quality will be very noticeable in each amp in the same situations!

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Thats the answer I was looking for, I was alwas curious of the difference in the various lines of power amps. Besides weight and some protective features I always thought the sound was the same

Let me add, that SOUND is should not be your ONLY consideration if your mobile KJ. Weight surely is a factor, especially if you are building up and tearing down your system severl times a week.

I KJ 5 time a week, and at 43, I quickly realized that as much as I loved those Yamaha Club 15s... at 65lbs a piece, plus the weight of the amp in the rack to drive them... this was a bit much. Especially since there was a light weight solution that IMHO sounds just as good if not better.

The JBL Eons or the Mackies only weigh 35 lbs a piece, and the amp is built in! A mixer hardly weighs much, so there ya go... Two amplified speakers, a nice mixer and a third for a monitor make a nice system.

However, my system costs $4000 once you add in the computer and the microphones + karaoke software.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!