Karaoke Forums

I am attempting to record live at my shows (I'm using RoxBox recorder), but it seems that either the music is up too loud or the voice is up too load. What software can I use to get a great live mix or to record and mix later? I am going from my board into the behringer splitter, then to my computer. I hear some great mixes on here and would like to do some for myself and some of my singers.
Thanks,
Ken (Shana's Husband)
rumpbumpinsounds@msn.com

You could record the music to one channel and the singer to the other then mix it down later at your leisure. Connecting your computer to a couple of aux outs on your mixer would accomplish that method. Unfortunately there will be loss of stereo fidelity/information but if your techie at all you could cut/paste vocals and re-build/mix the vocals with the music in a package like Sonar

It's one of those strange things where the live mix through the speakers sounds great but the recording is unbalanced. It's all to do with the acoustic contribution made by the venues shape/sound characteristics.

Eventually experience will tell you where to set the controls for recording but unfortunately this will probably result in a less than ideal live sound. Weird huh ?

Good luck

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

I would only record the microphone signal to begin with. Use Sonar to blend and balance the Vocal track with the backing track later.

Import the backing track
Import the vocal to a different channel
Move them around until they both start where they should.
Adjust levels until they are just right.
Export MP3.

easy peasy I think.

Beat me to it vtrod

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

Thanks you guys, I'll probably have to hit you up later for the exact stuff I need to do. The bar I work in is one of the worst, accousticly, LOTS of ceiling to floor windows. I have my "Live" sound, sounding and mixed very well, but that doggone recording is what get me. As you know, every singer is different, so the record and mix later would probably give me the best results. I'll check out Sonar.
Thanks again!
Ken
rumpbumpinsounds@msn.com

If your live recordings are coming out with the music or vocals too high, that is a direct reflection on the mixing itself - sorry to say. The live recording off the tape output will record exactly what is being mixed. Acoustics aside, the music is going direct, the mics are the only thing you need to worry about in the live situation, which unless you are feeding back, will sound exactly how you eq them. May be just too much eq'ing and/or effects being used on the mic channels.
If you want to record it where you can mix it later, then like stated, you can record the music into one channel & the vocals into the 2nd channel & then combine later. Although I also record live at my shows, have never had the need to do this. You want your vocals JUST above the music in the main mix with just enough effects to not really notice they are there but would notice if they weren't!
I use Audacity for my live mixes & it has always served well - plus it's free!
Do you have any smaples you could put to a website or upload to Singer Showcase?

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Typically there is between 6 and 8 dB between singers and music level according to the faders in my live mix (channel trim/gains set for the same peak levels, 0dB on the meters with PFL).

This seems to result in reasonable recordings from my live mix.Just a starting point

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

Even though this is typically true, even if the gains are set wrong, the faders are still going to play a part in the tape out of an over all mix. If the music or vocals are overpowering on the recording, someone is not listening to the mix correctly - or possibly have the main eq set wrong as well giving a false sense of sound to the main mix.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It is hard to record live and mix in several different singers. Remember proper tracking levels are -6DB. Then it really depends upon why you are recording or the end product desired. If the singer wants a CD quality "keeper" then vocal only and master later is the only way. In which case you want to track directly out of the mic compressor or if you have a vocal proc such as a Lexicon perhaps out of it.

For live recording you still want to track vocals as above and if possible music prior to adding EFX.Feed each separately or both into a compressor/limiter then back to line level input on the computer. It is best to monitor with headphones and actually ride the desk. The host cannot record and do it right. With Rox I sometimes click record all on player 1 and record the whole show. Most of the recordings turn out half way decent but that one that you or the singer really wants is always screwwed up.

I rarel get recording requests anymore and havnt recorded with my laptop at shows but with a CFX12 I would have the proper feeds. For example I would send the mic subs to a limiter then back. I would use a pre aux for the music feed.

I don't record because I know you need a special license for the backing tracks to re-record them, but I thought about getting it as I think Chartbuster will sell you such a license. Anyway, this is one thing to keep in mind when doing karaoke recordings.

If you are willing to re-mix later on, you should get a console with direct outs for your vocal channels. You will want the signal source of the direct jack to be as close to the mic pre-amp as possible. Various consoles will be pre-insert, pre-EQ, pre-fader, or post-fader, and some have switches or jumpers so you can change it. Pre-insert would be ideal.

Then you'll re-mix later on and have the opportunity to get it just right without having any of the signal processing you used live in the recording. The reason is, it probably takes you a moment to adjust for each singer, or maybe you never really had a chance to get that person sounding like you wanted them to. You don't want all those changes interfering with your mix-down work.

Also, it is possible that someone sounded okay in the club and bad on the recording through no fault of your own. You probably listened to the recording on different speakers at a dramatically different volume level. As we should all know, the ear's frequency response curve changes based on SPL, and that is what we call "loudness." It is why old stereo amps have a loudness button, which engages an EQ circuit that adjusts the signal for a higher listening volume.

One other big factor is your stage wedges. You and part of the audience is probably hearing a lot of stage wash, and that may add more vocals than music depending on how you set your monitors.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Actually this is opposite, the loudness button was for boosting the lows & highs at lower volumes.
That aside, if the mix is right, you can achieve a good live recording via the tape out - I do it all the time. No it's not going to be studio quality, but unless the singer is going to be multitracking & splicing in overdubs to repair mistakes, there really is no point to going through all the great lengths of separating the tracks in a karaoke show to mix them later. Get a good mix live & that is what will record.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

My experience wth recording a live mix has been that the vocals quite often end up being more dominant that one would typically like out of a studio recording. It's not a sign of a bad mix but rather an indication of the differences between mixing for recording and mixing for live sound reinforcement. They are two very different animals. With bands, most of the time when we want to record live we just take the 2TR out from the console and run it to the mini-disc recorder. However when we want a better quality recording we usually use a splitter snake and a seperate console with someone mixing in cups to get the levels closer to a traditional studio mix.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

A good compressor on the vocals will help as well. Chances are the OP is not using one on the mics.

When I record bands live, I would usually bring in the multi track recorder & go from the direct outs of each channel - depending on the board it could've been anywhere from 8-24 channels. Then would do a full mix in my home studio (miss that set up). Unless they just wanted a quick mix to see how they sounded, then just a 2 track dump from the tape out to computer.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

This is the direction I was going, and with karaoke it is not very hard because you have the backing track already. All you need to do is record the vocal channels and you can mix it later. It all depends on what kind of quality the customers expect. Like you said, sometimes you'd just do 2TR for something quick, and sometimes you did a very professional recording & mix-down.

We got asked to host karaoke and do recordings at a local club that wanted to add that to their entertainment about a year ago. They wanted to sell DVDs of the singing, including video (a camera and controller were installed) to the singers for $20. They expected a title screen and video cross-fade in/out, good quality audio, and for the person to be able to get the DVD by the end of the night. Then they wanted the person doing that to also be handling all the live work of hosting. I told them how stupid they were on both work-load, pay, and licensing; and they ended up throwing out the whole mix-down idea and just hiring an $8/hr girl to queue songs and press record on a home DVD recorder. No one was happy paying for those DVDs even when they changed the price to $5.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

That's funny....