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| Straight from the horses mouth https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16786 |
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| Author: | Lone Wolf [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Straight from the horses mouth |
A while back I asked this question on the Sound Choice Board: "I was reading on another board about someone who had just purchased SC3500 CD and he claimed that at the end of each song a notice came up stating "It is a copyright infringement to put this music onto a hard drive with a $ 750 fine per song. Is this true? I thought that SC had stated that you could copy their discs to a hard drive as long as you kept it a 1:1 ratio." Today I get this answer from them: "Guys, very sorry for the delay in answering. I'm not the right person for this info, so I wanted to get an answer from someone who is. This comes directly from the owner of SC, and I hope it clears everything up. Thanks for your patience. "Sound Recording Copyright 101: Every recorded song has two copyrights – the © Composition (words and music) and the Recording copyright. Sound Choice has to obtain and pay for the © copyrights. Further, there is a trademark involved in our products – the Sound Choice name and logo . Sound Choice does not have the rights from the publishers to grant you the right to transfer the composition to a hard drive, we only can grant or control the sound recording rights and the trademark. Sound Choice sold its music catalog to Stingray Digital in May of 2007, so the bulk of the content (everything except songs from Discs 9021, 9022 and the 3500+ series) existing on everyone’s hard drives and CDGs today is now a split ownership between Stingray (for the music) and Sound Choice for the trademark and brand. Sound Choice and Stingray recognize the inherent advantages of running a show using files stored on a hard drive. We are taking the position that if a KJ owns an original copy of the CDG or a legally purchased download for each and every file on each and every hard drive owned by the KJ that we will not take legal action against that person/company. That means that if you have 4 different rigs then for every song on each rig, you must have in your possession and ownership an original CDG that you legally purchased or downloaded files that you purchased from a legal Stingray Site or an affiliate site. If you have the I-95 ******* Song from disc 8117 on 4 different rigs, then you have to have 4 original copies of disc 8117 in your possession. (That does not mean you have to carry them with you to the show, but you must have the originals in storage someplace). You are still at risk if a publisher wants to make an issue out of the fact that you copied the file to your computer and are using that second copy for your show, but since the publisher got paid when we made and sold the original disc to you, they are not likely to take any action because you shifted the file to a different format or medium. However if you made a second copy and neither the producer nor the publisher got paid for that second copy because there were no royalties paid by the purchase of a second original CDG or second download file, then you have committed two copyright infringements and a trademark infringement. Willful copyright infringements are subject to a MINIMUM of a $750 fine per song, up to $150,000 per song. Sound Choice, Stingray and other karaoke producers have begun taking action against KJs and other infringers in order to protect our intellectual property rights. Basically we are taking a cooperative approach and simply seeking to be paid for what the KJs have been using without seeking punitive damages. However in the event a KJ is not cooperative or we have to engage the service of our lawyers then the cost to the KJ could skyrocket towards the $750 per song penalty in addition to trademark infringement penalties. In addition to paying for legal fees (both our and theirs) and the penalties it’s easy to see that it is not a situation that the KJ wants to put himself in. In time, we plan to issue a “covenant not to sue” which will list all the song titles that we are going to cover under that covenant. We plan to introduce new Sound Choice files in MP3+G format WITH a different look and we will keep track of your registered files so that when we get a report of suspected infringements, we can check against our records and let the investigator know if things are OK or not. (We are doing this to protect the legal KJ and to help ourselves as well, since we get dozens of reports a day of illegal KJs and expect that to skyrocket as KJs try to turn each other in to eliminate the unfair competition at their level.)" Now check this out: http://www.thekaraokechannel.com/store/ ... c-3979.htm It looks like Sound Choice has authorized downloading. What do you think? Lone Wolf |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Weill since that site is operated by Stingray Music - the company Sound Choice sold their music selections to, I would say that it is 100% legal. Even that letter claims that downloads from authorized SC or Stingray sites are legal. |
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| Author: | letitrip [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Unfortunately the downloads available at that site are not MP3+G. They are either video files (WMV or MP4) combining the lyrics and music in one file or you can get just the audio file. So for many of us this doesn't help anything. |
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| Author: | Lone Wolf [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
letitrip @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 pm wrote: Unfortunately the downloads available at that site are not MP3+G. They are either video files (WMV or MP4) combining the lyrics and music in one file or you can get just the audio file. So for many of us this doesn't help anything.
Ahhh another reason to love winamp as it plays both. L.W. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Lone Wolf @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:05 pm wrote: letitrip @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 pm wrote: Unfortunately the downloads available at that site are not MP3+G. They are either video files (WMV or MP4) combining the lyrics and music in one file or you can get just the audio file. So for many of us this doesn't help anything. Ahhh another reason to love winamp as it plays both. L.W. So does Hoster  .
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| Author: | Babs [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Great info ! Your post clears up a lot of misconceptions. |
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| Author: | Karen K [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
I didn't read in that piece whether they are soliciting names of pirates. I would love to help them collect! |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
http://www.uskaraokealliance.com/Karaoke_Legal_Talk.htm |
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| Author: | kameragurl [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Karen K @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:11 pm wrote: I didn't read in that piece whether they are soliciting names of pirates. I would love to help them collect!
So would I. |
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| Author: | JoeChartreuse [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
From the Karaoke Alliance site: News Release 6-1-09: US Karaoke Alliance and Sound Choice work to Combat Piracy And ..........Priddis dropped out of the Karaoke business and issued a joint statement with EMI in 2008 acknowledging that sync licenses are required for Karaoke tracks. Over the years, DK, Pioneer , Music Maestro, Nutech, Backstage and many other smaller companies have followed suit and went out of business showing that Priddis was correct back in 2005. As of now the only major players remaining active in Karaoke are Sound Choice, Stellar Records, Chartbuster, and Pocket Songs..... I find both of these hysterical. Sound Choice ( who skipped to Australia to avoid paying licensing fees, then sells to US hosts) partnered against piracy? AND considered in the same sentence as LICENSED publishers as a major player? Talk about irony..... |
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| Author: | ggardein [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
 .....yeah that reply makes it official.......sheesh.....
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| Author: | 6 String [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Just about every shade of grey in this area huh? That's quite a sensible response from soundchoice though. The agreement not to take action as long as you have a 1:1 ratio is about the best you could expect them to do. They can't condone file shifting because the legalities are still not set in stone, nor act against it because they know that most now do it. The situation is probably tougher for them than it is for us KJs. In the UK, the PRS/MCPS has introduced the 'produb' licence (have a google) which DJs/KJs must now have in order to shift to hard drive. Its quite costly to say the least and the legalities of file shifting still remains unresolved regardless, as the licence doesn't take into account the position of the owners of the original music/lyrics. They itend to publish the list of licence holders to pubs/clubs as a means of showing who is & who isn't legitimate. The main point of contention is how it can be policed. Will they check every applicant's disc/file ratio? What if a pirate bought a knock-off hard drive & a produb licence? Is he now to be considered more legitimate if he bought a produb licence than a KJ who uses discs & doesn't need one? The whole digital music situation must be the most mischeivous genie ever to escape the bottle! |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
With average reading and comprehension skills anybody can interpret laws from dot gov websites. Copyright laws and amendments are readily available with a google search. As far as i'm concerned you just asked the fox what are the rules for protecting the hen house. Anything on the internet concerning ascap or RIIA lawsuits as of late awarded only moneys to compensate for actual proven financial loss. Soundchoice does not make the laws nor do they ammend federal copyright laws. They have no business giving legal advice on the internet. They promulgate things like they are giving us a break when the truth is they dont have a leg to stand on and as RIIA found out it is a legal nightmare when they had to prove financial losses and was only awarded that amount. I swore never to reply to a legal thread again and will not unless there are links to dot gov sites that offer proof to these rumors. The bottom line is if you are not copying and distributing for profit what you are doing is not covered by current copyright laws or amendments. You can argue until you are blue in the face show me a dot gov site to substantiate your rumors. Initially I invested a lot of money in SC discs and havnt bought one for years. The simple reason being I do not trust, patronise, support, or uphold any company that might accuse or sue me for losses occured due to their own inadaquesies regarding marketing or keeping up with technologies. With one dollar downloads they would be a million dollars richer yet they stick with mafia tactics. The mafia eliminates all the competition in one way or another. I DO NOT TRUST THEM AND WILL NOT BUY THEIR CD"S. |
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| Author: | knightshow [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
JoeChartreuse @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:58 pm wrote: From the Karaoke Alliance site: What SC is doing is not called PIRACY, it's called OUTSOURCING. Like many companies, they are driven by the almighty dollar, and when WE kjs are complaining that they want certain songs, if SC continued to play by the same rulebook they helped establish, many songs would not get the chance to get made, as they were constantly getting refused on permission to do songs. I don't blame them ONE BIT for doing this. Back when Joe started Zoom, BC had begun talking with him about what the permissions were in the UK.
News Release 6-1-09: US Karaoke Alliance and Sound Choice work to Combat Piracy And ..........Priddis dropped out of the Karaoke business and issued a joint statement with EMI in 2008 acknowledging that sync licenses are required for Karaoke tracks. Over the years, DK, Pioneer , Music Maestro, Nutech, Backstage and many other smaller companies have followed suit and went out of business showing that Priddis was correct back in 2005. As of now the only major players remaining active in Karaoke are Sound Choice, Stellar Records, Chartbuster, and Pocket Songs..... I find both of these hysterical. Sound Choice ( who skipped to Australia to avoid paying licensing fees, then sells to US hosts) partnered against piracy? AND considered in the same sentence as LICENSED publishers as a major player? Talk about irony..... Get over it already. It's NOT illegal, they're just finding a way to continue to do business. |
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| Author: | karaoke koyote [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Dead horse soundly beaten. 
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| Author: | karyoker [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
Quote: Dead horse soundly beaten. Rolling Eyes
It's so lonesome in the saddle!!! Since my horse died.... |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
As a rancher and a farmer I never beat or abused any live animal and this included 2000 pound bulls or stallions. They ate before I did and if money was tight our table got the short end of the stick. I have never abused a woman, stock or pets either verbally or physically. I have ridden broncs out of the chute and never had a spur on my boots in my life. My horses have never suffered or died due to my actions but was given the care of an old cowboy that loved them like family. I dont know how many here have had a dead horse but it is like losing a family member. An old cowboy in Colorado.. |
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| Author: | johnny reverb [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
karyoker @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:00 pm wrote: As a rancher and a farmer I never beat or abused any live animal and this included 2000 pound bulls or stallions. They ate before I did and if money was tight our table got the short end of the stick. I have never abused a woman, stock or pets either verbally or physically. I have ridden broncs out of the chute and never had a spur on my boots in my life. My horses have never suffered or died due to my actions but was given the care of an old cowboy that loved them like family. I dont know how many here have had a dead horse but it is like losing a family member. An old cowboy in Colorado..
Aren't you the guy who told me.......sheep lie?........ 
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| Author: | JoeChartreuse [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
knightshow @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:47 pm wrote: JoeChartreuse @ Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:58 pm wrote: From the Karaoke Alliance site: What SC is doing is not called PIRACY, it's called OUTSOURCING. Like many companies, they are driven by the almighty dollar, and when WE kjs are complaining that they want certain songs, if SC continued to play by the same rulebook they helped establish, many songs would not get the chance to get made, as they were constantly getting refused on permission to do songs. I don't blame them ONE BIT for doing this. Back when Joe started Zoom, BC had begun talking with him about what the permissions were in the UK.News Release 6-1-09: US Karaoke Alliance and Sound Choice work to Combat Piracy And ..........Priddis dropped out of the Karaoke business and issued a joint statement with EMI in 2008 acknowledging that sync licenses are required for Karaoke tracks. Over the years, DK, Pioneer , Music Maestro, Nutech, Backstage and many other smaller companies have followed suit and went out of business showing that Priddis was correct back in 2005. As of now the only major players remaining active in Karaoke are Sound Choice, Stellar Records, Chartbuster, and Pocket Songs..... I find both of these hysterical. Sound Choice ( who skipped to Australia to avoid paying licensing fees, then sells to US hosts) partnered against piracy? AND considered in the same sentence as LICENSED publishers as a major player? Talk about irony..... Get over it already. It's NOT illegal, they're just finding a way to continue to do business. No dead horse, but a lot of misunderstanding. I'm not saying SC is illegal. Here it is, as simply put as possible: They have shifted legal responsibility to the Karaoke Host. If the U.S. based host PLAYS any tracks downloaded from their site, they are using tracks that are NOT LICENSED in the U.S. Period. Use it, don't use it, don't care. But if you do, then you have no right to pi$$ and moan about those OTHER KJs using unlicensed music.... |
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| Author: | karyoker [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Straight from the horses mouth |
When you can show me a registered online copyright of their works dot gov of Sound Choice copyright then I will believe you You have to provide proof of every cd they produced. |
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