Karaoke Forums

The post about "First Banned Singers" made me think of this. I was banned by a singer.

I had a female singer that would come in by herself and drink just coffee usually. She was very demanding. She would come in with a 30 page print out of all the songs she sang then would ask me before the show to go through the list with her and pick out her songs for the night. Which I'd do. She'd follow me around complaining about the other singers. Of course no one was her level of great singing and when people would be horsing around having fun she'd refer to them as children. Of course I would constantly remind her it was karaoke and it was about having fun.

Anyway, she came in for about 2 weeks asking my help to prepare for a contest. She wanted help picking songs and critique her voice. This is where I went wrong ! I told her she was a beautiful girl with a fantastic, powerful voice with a huge range, but when you sing you crinkle your face a bit. Try and relax your face when you sing.

She does have an incredible voice, but makes a horrible face when she sings. I actually have to look away. Of course I'd never put it that way to her. She seemed to take the advice well until she came up to sing her next song. She started to sing and I whispered relax your face. She put the mic down and walked out the door.

She has my cell phone number because she walks to the train after karaoke late at night and I make her call me to let me know she got there okay. We are not friends out of karaoke.

She text messages me that she will never come back because she doesn't want to offend people with her face, but at least she isn't as bad as having to listen to all the horible singers.

I felt hurt at first. I was just trying to help like she asked. I would have never mentioned the face thing if it wasn't for the fact she was preparing for a contest. Now she's been gone for a while and I'm glad. I didn't realise how draining she was until she was gone. To think I used to come early to have time to go through he dumb list of songs.

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Babs, its so easy to let yourself get taken advantage of as host. We want to please people and make them happy, and when someone has a great voice, and you enjoy their performance it makes it twice as hard to say no to them.

As time goes by, I find that i'm more able to identify something that will lead to trouble and use the dreaded "no" word.... on something equivlent but more diplomatic.

When people ask me to critique their performance I always play up the positives, and offer advice to them on problems areas by suggesting ways they can discover problems areas on their own.

My most frequent advice is, "I think you sound great, but if you really are serious about adding additional tonal quality to your voice record yourself!"

In your case I would have said, "When it comes to the performance aspects of what you're doing many people find it useful to perform in front of a mirror..."

Most people don't want to hear the truth, but something that will perpetuate their fantasy... and I just cater to that truth. If they really are asking me in order to improve they will follow my advice, and discover their issues for themselves!

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Along the lines of what Koyote is saying, I never let myself get put in a position to critique the signers at my show. As Koyote said, they don't really want the truth in most cases and I'm a terrible liar. I refuse to lie to someone about their singing so I'd rather not answer questions at all about how I feel they did. I tend to be brutally honest and I don't mince words, so I know that it doesn't get taken in the manner it was meant. I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm not gonna sugar coat it either. I'll give you the facts, if you were flat in spots I'll tell you. If you don't transition between chest and head well, I'll tell you. So don't ask unless you're ready to hear what I have to say and take it as a learning experience.

So as a result, I'll usually make up an excuse or something for why I can't answer their questions about their performances. It's a no win situation for me so I refuse to get pulled in.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I give advice to a certain extent without hype or lies. Beyond that I tell them they can rent recording time and I will record them. $100/hr.

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Heck if all my wrinlked face singers left --I'd be alone

She has crossed the proverbial line by expecting you to cater to her every whim. I think you have every right to ask her to not expect you to indulge her quite so much. That is if she ever comes back.

On the other hand, now everytime ( or concievably for a good while ) she sings she will be thinking that she is appearing unattractive and now may be focusing on what she looks like instead of what she is singing. Commenting on someones looks even with good intentions can be very tricky. ( as you have found out ) I'm not saying she was justified in throwing a hissy fit by what you said, but I can see where someone who is sensitive about their looks could take it wrong.

She is definitely exhibiting diva behavior and needs to be made aware of that, maybe both of you learned a little lesson from this incident. Although I doubt she ( the diva ) has. Just my thoughts. Rudy.

tell her to grow UP Babs, and stop acting worse than a two year old!

Speaking of funny faces while singing - I was SOOO distracted by Kris Allen's constant face making while he was singing that I missed the entire song sometimes. (American Idol WINNER...NOT).... So, I think your suggestion was valid, Babs - I don't know how many times people have asked me and I spend the next five minutes probing to see if they really MEAN that they want my opinion. Most are pretty thick skinned and determined to get better - those are the ones who accept the constructive criticism. The rest? They don't mean they want an honest opinion. Don't ask if you don't wanna know. Simple.

I never responded to her text message and have had no contact with her since.

Thanks for your responses. You know I usually stay away from critiquing anyone. Karaoke to me is about having fun not worrying about how great you sang, so I've really never put myself in that position before. I'm pretty good at avoiding those baiting questions about performance. She was so insistant on me helping her though for this contest. I'll never fall for that again.

I think you guys are right. Most people just want to be assured they are doing good by asking these questions. They aren't expecting someone to actually critique them.

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WOAH! My 2-year-old granddaughter wouldn't act that way. If you ask, she'll show you her "moves" and leave you smiling all day long. Somehow I doubt Bab's singer would be able to do that! .

I miss the days where talent was the main focus and not whether you were making weird faces while you were singing ( Joe Cocker, Janis Joplin ) or playing an instrument ( Carlos Santana ) but I guess those days are gone. Realistically I guess this applies more towards pop and country music because God knows there are some rock and metal bands out there with some scary looking people in them. Rudy.

...somebody should tell John Mayer he should watch himself Great singer but strange weird looks when he sings. He still gets tons of female fans who swoon.

Bet you wish you would have known sooner, that that was all you had to do to.....to make her go away.......

Babs - first of all- you get HUGE Kudos! You SERIOUSLY went above and beyond for this girl. it sounds like you weren't really comfortable with the situation- but when PUSHED like you were- you offered what you though was beneficial. She was wrong to back you against a wall like she did. (She's got a LOT of nerve!) But you could have avoided the situation by telling her that you didn't feel qualified or comfortable helping her...tell her that you are a KJ not a vocal coach. If you were you should be compensated for your time and expertise not asked to come in early to peruse song lists out of the goodness of your heart( which is a WHOLE lot better than the goodness in mine! )


Second- most "good" singers don't really want "help" they want a pat on the back and a boost to their ego. When she made the comment about all the other singers being "children" I would have politely suggested that perhaps "karaoke" was beneath her skill level and she should move on to the next level by looking for professional ways to get involved with her singing.. craigslist always has adds running that are looking for vocalists. Point her -or anyone like her that way. Her overinflated ego will eat this up and you are obliquely reminding her that karaoke is not exactly known for "professional singing" (Though many pros got their start there!) and if she has a problem with people just" having fun" and considers them childish by doing so- she needs to move on to a more professional arena because karaoke obviously isn't her thing anymore. A side note...I don't really go to karaoke shows very often anymore because it DOES kind of rain on everyone else's parade to have a pro get up there. People who sing for a living need to be aware of that fact they they can and do imtimidate less experienced singers and get over the " God's Gift" mentality... Nothing worse that a pro who comes in and acts like he's doing a favor to the karaoke show by blessing them with talent


Now on to what you did tell her... ....THAT is HYSTERICAL! I have never seen a picture of myself singing where I didn't look constipated! I used to worry about letting it show that what i was doing required a little effort. Then i realised that "singing" is primarily an "AUDIAL" medium. Stage presence is great- but bottom line you have to sell the song...if you're passionate about whatever you're singing...then making a funny face is immaterial. I can actually see where a comment like that would distract her. IMHO one of my favorite quotes is "singing ain't pretty- but it sure SOUNDS good!" Granted I wouldn't have showed my azz or walked off the stage...but that's her own little world- what a touchy beeyotch...and you did learn a valuable lesson or two...most of your karaokers want to be fluffed...and the ones who seriously want constructive critism..need to hire a vocal coach. At a show you are a KJ so that's not your job(especially if you had to come in early to help her!) ...and if she respected your opinion "as a coach" enough to compensate you for your time- then perhaps she wouldn't have gotten offended when you offered it to her. next time someone asks you to coach them like that- tell them that is something you do on the side and give them your rates. ( wink wink) THAT should end any problem you have with that! Oh...if they ARE willing to pay you and you're not comfortable with coaching- tell them you were joking and point them towards a coach you respect.


Either way- you got rid of a diva who needs to stay home and sing to herself because the karaoke crowds just aren't worthy!

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Have you ever seen Jessica Simpson sing when she is full force face making?
I have nothing against her - love her shoes

I thought she was joking when I first saw it. I was so distracted by it. I don't think I even noticed her singing.

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That's because she can't and doesn't sing but she DOES have some great shoes!

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Oneofakind - thank you for your words.

Ultra Diva didn't so much make faces as scrunch her whole face like she'd eaten a pack of lemons. She'd hold her face in this look the whole song.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Apparently my tongue-in-cheek comment was taken seriously by some. EVERYBODY makes weird faces when they sing. It is easy to get distracted by someone whose mug has been gracing the tv screen for years and years - e.g. Kris Allen...but as for the rest, who cares? I look like I'm about to cry most of the time - if you sing with emotion, your face is going to show it. Too funny, Babs, about the lemon face - that WOULD be distracting. Too bad people can't take a little honesty.

LAWD....you would hate my shows....I'm ALL scrunched up! But... if you ever want to come... PROMISE I'll bring a really soft blindfold for you!

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To be honest if I am looking at Jessica Simpson her face is not the first thing I look at! She knows her assets and usually puts them out there for all to see, nothing wrong with that. I am not a fan of hers but I don't fault her for marketing herself. Some very rich performers have made a living with less vocal talent than she has. I love her shoes too! Rudy.