Karaoke Forums

Let's call them "KJ Old" who's had this gig for a year and "KJ New" the substitute he called in to cover his show for a night.

The bar owner called KJ New and said he wants to hire him permanently and give KJ Old the boot. KJ New took the gig, but the boss hasn't told KJ Old yet.

Meanwhile KJ Old called KJ New to ask him if he'd cover a different show for him.

My question...

If you were KJ New, would you give KJ Old the heads up that his boss offered him the show? Or just let KJ Old find out on his own when his boss tells him after his last show this week?

I'll share my suggestion to KJ New in a bit...

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

If I were KJ New, I'd not have taken the gig when the boss called in the first place, but that's just me. I know it's not good business sense, however my own personal sense of ethics would keep me from accepting the gig. I'm funny about making sure I don't "take" gigs away from KJ's I don't know. One who entrusted me with his show in a substitute role, I could never do that, even if I thought in the end it might go to a different KJ anyway. Again, that's just me.

_________________
DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

yeah, I'm with letitrip on this one. Seems kinda sneaky to take the job without giving the "old" kj a heads up. He brought kj new into the fold and deserves more than this. I'm not saying he shouldn't get the job but their are better ways of handling this particular situation. Burning bridges have their consequences.

Who would want to work for a owner who is willing to replace you without any discussions ? Who would want to work for an owner who doesn't have the business sense to talk to OLDKJ way before replacing him

Ethically I have a real problem with the New KJ accepting the offer from the Boss.

I would never accept an offer from a venue where I did fill in work. I would discuss it with the Old KJ first and would give him heads up and give him a chance to work it out with the Boss. If he could not work it out with the Boss and he was going down the road I would probably recommend a local KJ instead of taking the gig myself.

My reasoning here is I don't like Owners/Bosses that can't communicate with their KJ's and try to improve the situation. Also Owners/Bosses who will replace you on a moments notice usually continue to do this so history will eventually repeat itself.

I like long term gigs, and relationships with the bar owners that involve open communications regardless of the information good or bad. This is a clear cut case of a KJ and Owner who have stopped communicating. I would be willing to bet the Old KJ knows that they are on the way out, but have not stepped forward and took a pro-active approach with the Owner/Boss. On the other hand the Boss/Owner has not been clear with their intentions either.

_________________
FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Sticky sticky! Well, damage is done although I think new is a big smelly turd!

He needs to tell him, won't be pleasant but will only be worse most likely if he just says nothing and hopes the whole thing fades away.

_________________
KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

KJ Old calls KJ new and asks him to fill in for him on a regular basis. I'm assuming they are some sort of friends.

I'd think KJ new can say good bye to any more fill in calls and any kind of friendship he may have had with KJ Old for taking the job. Not to mention New KJ making a reputation in the karaoke world not to call him to fill in for you because he'll steal your gig.

I personally would have never taken the job and told the Old KJ what had transpired.

That said the only way I see that New KJ can fix this is by talking to Old KJ and telling him what the bar owner is up too without mentioning he took the job. If KJ Old is okay with it, keep the gig. If KJ Old is not okay with it I'd call the bar owner and explain why you need to decline.

This situation to me has bad mojo written all over it !

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

'nuff said. I totally agree with Babs!

difficult one this, I've been replaced by a new KJ, who gave me the heads up. . . so I have no hard feelings to the KJ only the bar owner. . . Always tell people if possible.

However, on a different note and avoiding my advice. .
I recently filled in for a KJ, to be offered a regular night in the venue, via another KJ who was asked to replace him. . .

Old KJ, I'd spoken to once on the phone, he had at least five gigs he needed covering in one venue and gave it to four different shows. Neither venues or new KJ's really knew what was going on (Chance would have it that all the gigs were covered. . . but Old KJ, knew nothing about me and my show and several of his replacements canvased his venue whilst they were there. I didn't even try for the venue. . . bad business sense I agree but ethically thats how i like to work).

After all of this the venue asks a well known entertainer (and a friend of theirs) to take over three nights. . . to include quizes and karaoke. . . the entertainer asks me to maintain the Karaoke.

I took the gig, since the Old KJ hadn't even contacted me to ask how it went, or to say thank you, I feel justified in doing so. . . I couldn't have kept anymore out of the politics if I tried. . . was I right? I let you know . . . karma will tell me.

LMFAO! you said turd! ( yes I am immature! )

Never been in that situation with running Karaoke- but in Atlanta I was singing at one place and a venue owner came in and asked me to work for her on a specific night. Another vocalist who had been very supportive of me when I first moved to Atlanta was working there on that night. I told the owner I would be glad to do the job- but that I would NOT do it at my friends expense. She asked if it would be alright if she moved my friend to another night so I could work the night she wanted me to and I said that was fine.


She fired a guy I didn't know or care about and moved my friend to his night...my friend found out what had happened a few months later and called to thank me for standing by her. Turns out the guy they fired was talking trash about her in the first place "trying" to get her fired so he could have her night as well as his own- so I think it was karma using me to bite him back because he basically wasn't a very nice person.


KJ new should be ashamed...he should also tell KJ old what the owner has said. Who knows- maybe there is bad blood and KJ old is looking for a graceful way out- he may tell KJ new to take the job. Either way the truth will never hurt you...and Kj new should have a greater desire to be able to look himself in the eye in a mirror than to take a "person who trusted him's" job in such a backhanded way.

_________________

Completely agree. The new kj is kind of an azzz for taking it & once old kj finds out, I doubt that new kj is going to get any more referrals from him. It's called not burning any bridges - and he (new kj) did!
As far as who should tell the old, may as well be the new one - complete the knife in back!
But I also agree with why would one want to work for a bar owner who is too MEOW MEOW to talk to the old kj first.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

As for the question itself, it is definitely the responsibility of the bar. New KJ should stay out of it. It may be not the greatest thing to do but with the economy the way it is, do you pay your mortgage or do you go on the streets. Unfortunately one has to look after themselves and their families. Reality bites.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Great opinions, gang. Here's a little more background and insight...might knowing this change your mind?

Before this instance, KJ New did not know KJ Old. KJ Old called me to ask if I knew of anyone who could perhaps cover his show. KJ New is someone I've met briefly in person at a local association meeting and who contributes to another board of which I'm a member. I introduced the two of them to each other and let them work out their own deal.

We don't know whether the boss has previously addressed his dissatisfaction with KJ Old. It might well be they've already talked about it. All we know is that the boss hasn't yet told KJ Old he's making a change.

My advice to KJ New was YES, he SHOULD call KJ Old and let him know about the bomb to be dropped. Not that New "owes" Old anything more than "professional courtesy" in this instance. I think if the boss initiated making a change, it's like a wife blaming the other woman for her husband straying. If KJ New didn't take the gig, would that have stopped the boss from replacing KJ Old altogether? Probably not.

In fact if KJ New is upfront with KJ Old, it wouldn't necessarily mean he wouldn't get further referrals either. Much of this can be avoided with a written contract for a fixed length of time between the KJ and the boss. Or even if KJ Old made KJ New sign a contract saying that in exchange for being his fill-in, he could not accept a position from that venue for a period of, say, 12 months.

_________________
[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

.


So you're saying if KJ old blew his boss and then he wouldn't stray?? oops Am I mixing my metaphors? ( I need a spankin I kNOW!)

_________________

Oneofakind, you're lucky I'm in another country and on the opposite coast.

BTW I loved San Fran when I was out there many many moons ago.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

I ain't SKEERED! ( saucy wink)

_________________

my personal thoughts are that if offered, the new kj should NOT accept until the old kj has been told.

THEN the new kj should sit down with the old kj before accepting the offer so any misunderstanding can try to be explained. But if the old kj still had a problem, hey, if I were the new kj, I'd NOT take the gig. I wouldn't hork over a friend like that.

And as it's been pointed out, who would want to work with a venue owner that's THAT bad to their help??

I actually had a very similar thing happen to me over 3 years ago. Old KJ,,(my friend) was fired from a gig, one that I was a regular at. After she was fired, the owner called me, I told him "No", until I had a chance to speak with my friend, who said "go for it". I took the gig, it's still going (though not very busy these days), and yes, my friend and I still speak quite often. She actually only lives 3 blocks from me, so we see each other quite often. Things have a habit of working themselves out, if we give it an honest try, and don't try to hide things from each other. Like they say, "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you" Golden rule always is the best.

I'd say there is your answer. New KJ should be upfront then. Obviously New and Old KJ have made significant contact if he has offered New KJ 2 fill in gigs. If someone was that nice to me I certainly wouldn't back stab them by taking over a gig of theirs without their blessing.

_________________
[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

well said, MrScott!