Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums

Hello all,

I am looking to start a karaoke business and buying all this equipment can be quite confusing. Reading all the posts on speakers with ohms, watts, bridged mode, crossovers, might as well be japanese. lol

I will be running a show in bars, might clubs, standard places you would find karaoke. I think I have everything down except the speakers, and I don't want them to sound like crap. Here are a couple choices that I have looked at, any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

2 Yamaha BR12's with a Crown xti-1000 amp. (I am concerned about the bass with no woofer and that the amp might be too weak)

American Audio Tri pack II ( seems to sound good at the club I heard these, and no amp needed and subwoofer included)

B-52 Matrix-1000 (a little heavier set than the american audio)

Also, any opinions on a stage monitor? nothing worse than singing and not being able to hear yourself well. Do you use one, and if so, what do you prefer?

Thanks a bunch

Dave

Larger shows they can struggle a bit, but you could always get another 1000 package for larger shows - an entire set for each side of a room or stage, not only doubling the effective volume, but also bass reponse.

The Yamaha BR12 is not worth the price -- nothing in the BR-series is.

Lonman @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:10 pm wrote:

The subs will cluster or cover a larger area (depending on where you place them) but the top boxes are not meant to be arrayed, and will work against each-other as much they do together.

Thanks,

Do you use a stage monitor for the singers? And what sub do you use for bass?

Dave

Not sure I follow you regarding the crazy statements, you might want to check out their website and not the retailer selling pitch :roll:

http://www.kxaudio.com/products.asp?ProdID=KX1.2

If you take a minute to read about this brand and search the web, you'll see that they are a very serious company :wink:

Nothing is 90% efficient at turning power into moving air. I tend to stay away from products that make crazy statements like that, as it is usually an indication that other things are over-statements too.

As far as power amp goes, I believe there are three obvious choices. Crown, QSC, or Behringer

I'm with Micky on this one, most people in the business know how effecient class D amplifiers can be and perhaps should do some homework on the KV2 line before commenting.

I don't see where the obvious comes in here other than the fact that obviously one of these things is not like the others.
I go on the road for a few weeks and see what happens. :wink:

Lonman and I will have to disagree on the B-52 Matrix applications.

My EP2500s are basically installed; I don't expect to need to move them anytime soon. I am very curious about the new Behringer EPX products, and will be asking my dealer for an early unit as soon as he can sell me one.

Author:	faaslave [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:	New Setup
Hello all, I am looking to start a karaoke business and buying all this equipment can be quite confusing. Reading all the posts on speakers with ohms, watts, bridged mode, crossovers, might as well be japanese. I will be running a show in bars, might clubs, standard places you would find karaoke. I think I have everything down except the speakers, and I don't want them to sound like crap. Here are a couple choices that I have looked at, any opinions would be greatly appreciated. 2 Yamaha BR12's with a Crown xti-1000 amp. (I am concerned about the bass with no woofer and that the amp might be too weak) American Audio Tri pack II ( seems to sound good at the club I heard these, and no amp needed and subwoofer included) B-52 Matrix-1000 (a little heavier set than the american audio) Also, any opinions on a stage monitor? nothing worse than singing and not being able to hear yourself well. Do you use one, and if so, what do you prefer? Thanks a bunch Dave

Author:	Micky [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Hi, welcome on board I would suggest the Electro-Voice ZX-1 over the Yamaha, they can take more power (400w peak) and are just $50,00 more (each). I'm running my ZX-1 with a Crown XTi-2000 and have no problem... These tops with a good active sub will give you an excellent sound, trust me

Author:	faaslave [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Thanks, Do you use a stage monitor for the singers? And what sub do you use for bass? Dave

Author:	fsapienjr [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
I have to agree with micky. I don't know anything about those speakers, but you will always be happy with a good crown amp. I love mine. I am also a firm believer in using a subby. My speakers can take the bass, but over the long run, I thing you can't get the beautiful deep bass and perfect vocals on the same speakers. During the majority of my show, on my regular speakers, I turn down the bass on the eq, and let the subby take care of the really low stuff. At 1am I start tearing down a little, I turn off the sub, and then to keep the sound right I turn the bass back up on the EQ. Felix the KJ

Author:	jeffsw6 [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
The Yamaha BR12 is not worth the price -- nothing in the BR-series is. If you want to stay portable and like the Yamaha brand & price point, I suggest CM15Vs on each side of your stage, on stands. Add a subwoofer as you have a budget (and room in your vehicle) a CW118V is pretty decent for the price. Eventually you will decide to buy better "top" speakers, and at that time you can start using your CM15Vs as stage monitors. The Crown XTi amps are nice, but if you are working with a limited budget and don't need the DSP features or low weight, there are cheaper alternatives. I recently got some Behringer EP2500s and I am pretty happy with them. I own XTi 2000s also, but I am not using them except where I need DSP or low weight anymore. To comment on the other speaker/amp systems you mentioned, the B-52 Matrix is a joke. Don't bother with that thing. I am not familiar with the American Audio system you mentioned.

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New Setup https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16921	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Lonman [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
faaslave @ Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:16 pm wrote: Hello all, I am looking to start a karaoke business and buying all this equipment can be quite confusing. Reading all the posts on speakers with ohms, watts, bridged mode, crossovers, might as well be japanese. I will be running a show in bars, might clubs, standard places you would find karaoke. I think I have everything down except the speakers, and I don't want them to sound like crap. Here are a couple choices that I have looked at, any opinions would be greatly appreciated. 2 Yamaha BR12's with a Crown xti-1000 amp. (I am concerned about the bass with no woofer and that the amp might be too weak) American Audio Tri pack II ( seems to sound good at the club I heard these, and no amp needed and subwoofer included) B-52 Matrix-1000 (a little heavier set than the american audio) Also, any opinions on a stage monitor? nothing worse than singing and not being able to hear yourself well. Do you use one, and if so, what do you prefer? Thanks a bunch Dave What is the budget you are working with? The Crown amp to Yamaha speakers is a decent match. The amp pushes 280 watts into 8 ohms, the speakers require 300 watts at 8 ohms - close enough. I would use a sub however with these speakers. 12" tend to not have any bass response as a rule. In PA use, 12" & under are often considered midrange to low mid - there are some exceptions, but this one won't be one. You could use a good powered sub 15"-18". The American Audio I wouldn't touch for club use. The B-52 is a decent little package, great for smaller to small mid shows. Larger shows they can struggle a bit, but you could always get another 1000 package for larger shows - an entire set for each side of a room or stage, not only doubling the effective volume, but also bass reponse. Stage monitor, again a small powered speaker would suffice for this. You don't mention music & players?

Author:	jeffsw6 [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Lonman @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:10 pm wrote: Larger shows they can struggle a bit, but you could always get another 1000 package for larger shows - an entire set for each side of a room or stage, not only doubling the effective volume, but also bass reponse. The subs will cluster or cover a larger area (depending on where you place them) but the top boxes are not meant to be arrayed, and will work against each-other as much they do together. I would not suggest using two pairs of the Matrix tops together. The reason I don't like the Matrix is it's all integrated, so upgrade options are basically "replace it." It's a cute system for house party DJs but a professional should not start out with, and get stuck with, a Matrix that won't resell too well. I have made a few gear-purchasing mistakes but I'm glad a Matrix wasn't one of them!

Author:	c. staley [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
buying all the equipment can seem like a daunting task.... where is the music coming from and how much do you have for your customers to choose from? You don't need a huge library, but a decent amount is necessary...

Author:	faaslave [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Thanks for all the replies. I have had karaoke equipment for many years, so my library is about 14,000 songs. I use a CAVS unit which I love and have had it for 5 years. All my songs have been loaded to it. I have four wireless mics (voco pro's). What I am buying so far except the speaker dilema: Odyssey Case 1316 Monster Power Pro3500 Rack mount keyboard/monitor (off ebay) Which leaves the speakers and monitor. I have heard the American Audio's and they sound good. But upgrading would mean starting over, so good point there. I also need to buy a a player to use for people that bring their own discs. I have no idea which one to get there as well. My budget, I was hoping to get away with $3000.00 for everything (excluding what I have already of course) As you already know, I don't even want to think about what all those songs cost me over the years. So the EV's seem to be reasonable and the amp is priced well on ebay as a B-stock item, whatever that means. Still need to figure out a good powered monitor too. Thanks for all the ideas. Dave

Author:	TopherM [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
jeffsw6 @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:13 am wrote: The Yamaha BR12 is not worth the price -- nothing in the BR-series is. I have a Yamaha BR-12 that was the vocal monitor for my band from 2002-2004, and has been the monitor for my karaoke from 2004-present. I also use it whenever I throw parties at my house, for tailgating, etc.. My BR-12 is not only obviously durable, it sounds great. It sounds just as good today as it did when I bought it 8 years ago, and doesn't look much different either. I power it with a bridged amp that gives it 300 watts and the thing puts out great midrange and bass. It is average on the high end, but still very adequate for a smaller pro-level show. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these speakers to anyone as a monitor, home use, or even as mains in a small to medium pro karaoke rig if you are just starting out. At about $220 a speaker on E-Bay, they are a solid investment until your show turns into a regular gig and you can afford to upgrade.

Author:	Lonman [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
jeffsw6 @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:27 am wrote: Lonman @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:10 pm wrote: Larger shows they can struggle a bit, but you could always get another 1000 package for larger shows - an entire set for each side of a room or stage, not only doubling the effective volume, but also bass reponse. The subs will cluster or cover a larger area (depending on where you place them) but the top boxes are not meant to be arrayed, and will work against each-other as much they do together. If set up correctly with 1 channel going to each set, yes they will work fine together. I have used the 2000 series in exactly this manner with another company I work with. No problems.

Author:	Micky [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
faaslave @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:10 am wrote: Thanks, Do you use a stage monitor for the singers? And what sub do you use for bass? Dave Here's the sub I'm using with my ZX-1 tops: https://www.djsupply.com/proddetail.asp ... KV2+KX+1.2 This brand is not well known in the US but it's a young company and the owner is the guy that designed many RCF, Mackie and other well known brand Don't be tempt by the KX 1.5, the KX 1.2 sounds much better, VERY tight bass and it can also be generous in the lower end

Author:	jeffsw6 [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Micky, if the claims that sub makes were true, it would literally be the loudest commercially-available subwoofer on the market. Nothing is 90% efficient at turning power into moving air. I tend to stay away from products that make crazy statements like that, as it is usually an indication that other things are over-statements too. To the OP, I have a couple of Monster 3500s. It's cool to have the volt/amp meter but if you are on a limited budget, just get a good computer surge strip. The $40 thing that Radio Shack puts their own brand name on is literally superior to most of the ~$100 stuff made by Furman and friends; and that Monster product, while having decent surge specs and some nice LEDs and convenience outlets, is not an absolute necessity for you. Right now I think you should spend your money on more important things! "B-stock" means the item is silghtly damaged but should function correctly. These should be factory refurbs that might have scratches/dents or were returned for warranty service and repaired. I wouldn't buy an American Audio amp as "A stock" (I am familiar enough with the brand to know that I have never seen a *working American Audio amp, only dead ones) let alone B-stock. Maybe I should have spoke up earlier. As far as power amp goes, I believe there are three obvious choices. Crown, QSC, or Behringer. Crown and QSC have great products, warranties, and reputations. Behringer EP-series amps are basically good but Behringer in general does not have a great warranty, reputation, and some products are not so "great." However, I own several EP2500 amps and use them in my A rig on FoH. I also know how to change out to a backup amp in moments if I had a problem. And they are so cheap, you can buy a backup amp and still save money. Kustom makes better monitors than the BR-12 for less money, even though Kustom speakers seem to have doubled in price within the last month. I do not know what the reason is for the price increase, but I would take my Kustom wedges over BR12s or BR15s any day of the week. The Yamaha club/concert series is pretty nice, though. Lonman and I will have to disagree on the B-52 Matrix applications.

Author:	Micky [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Not sure I follow you regarding the crazy statements, you might want to check out their website and not the retailer selling pitch http://www.kxaudio.com/products.asp?ProdID=KX1.2 If you take a minute to read about this brand and search the web, you'll see that they are a very serious company

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Author:	LondonLive [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Micky @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:44 pm wrote: Not sure I follow you regarding the crazy statements, you might want to check out their website and not the retailer selling pitch http://www.kxaudio.com/products.asp?ProdID=KX1.2 If you take a minute to read about this brand and search the web, you'll see that they are a very serious company Quote: Nothing is 90% efficient at turning power into moving air. I tend to stay away from products that make crazy statements like that, as it is usually an indication that other things are over-statements too. I'm with Micky on this one, most people in the business know how effecient class D amplifiers can be and perhaps should do some homework on the KV2 line before commenting. It's a very reputable company, I'd say a little more than even Behringer and Kustom Db Tech also has a very cost effective sub. http://www.directproaudio.com/product.c ... ctid=53688 Quote: As far as power amp goes, I believe there are three obvious choices. Crown, QSC, or Behringer I don't see where the obvious comes in here other than the fact that obviously one of these things is not like the others. I go on the road for a few weeks and see what happens. faaslave, I don't see where you gave a projected budget for what you are trying to accomplish, do you have one? There are numerous choices in all different price ranges. If the guys knew what range you were shooting for I'm sure a good bang for the buck system can be assembled.

Author:	jeffsw6 [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
LondonLive @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:24 pm wrote: I'm with Micky on this one, most people in the business know how effecient class D amplifiers can be and perhaps should do some homework on the KV2 line before commenting. I took the e-tailer's statements to indicate the system as a whole is 90% efficient, which is not true. I just clicked on the link in the thread, and did not go to the manufacturer page as Micky suggested. Quote: I don't see where the obvious comes in here other than the fact that obviously one of these things is not like the others. I go on the road for a few weeks and see what happens. I mentioned Behringer because some people are really budget conscious in the short term, and if I was, I would sooner buy EP2500s and get an extra backup, than buy N-1 Crown or QSC amps and spend more money doing so. That said, I put my XTi 2000s in my mobile rig because they are so light-weight and have 2+ years left on the warranty. My EP2500s are basically installed; I don't expect to need to move them anytime soon. I am very curious about the new Behringer EPX products, and will be asking my dealer for an early unit as soon as he can sell me one.

Author:	faaslave [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
I think I did mention above that I was looking to keep this around $3000.00 With that said, I figure about $1300.00 for the speakers and amps. After reading all the posts, I think I am getting a little more of an understanding. Passive speakers with amps are better than active speakers as a general rule? They also leave more room for upgrading. Speakers will be lighter this way as well. Good options are the EV's, some like the Yamaha's, JBL's, or CM15's, with the Crown xti-2000 Powered systems like the American Audio and the B-52's aren't quite as nice but handy and a cheaper alternative. A powered sub could be used with passive systems. Not everyone uses a monitor, but an active speaker would work good for this? I feel like I am leaning towards the EV's, crown amp, and a powered sub. The one that Micky suggests is a little pricy. I guess I have to make a decision soon, thanks for all the input. Dave

Author:	Lonman [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
jeffsw6 @ Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:26 pm wrote: Lonman and I will have to disagree on the B-52 Matrix applications. Go right ahead! if you haven''t used it in that specific application, I might too, but I have & won't!

Author:	faaslave [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
Quote: My EP2500s are basically installed; I don't expect to need to move them anytime soon. I am very curious about the new Behringer EPX products, and will be asking my dealer for an early unit as soon as he can sell me one. Wow, These are a good deal and have good reviews from what I have read. Almost seems to good to be true. This will save some money though. Thanks Dave

Author:	jeffsw6 [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New Setup
They have a new product called the EPX coming out soon, too. The dealer I use for Behringer indicated I should be able to get one in about two weeks. The pricing for the EPX3000 is not much higher than the EP2500/EP4000 and it weighs significantly less. I am really anxious to get one and try it out. Looks like it has a switching power supply like the XTi / PLX. If you can wait a couple weeks to buy an amp, you might consider one of those instead; but it is brand new so who knows if the first units that ship will have the kinks worked out. Some here would argue that the Behringer logo is a pretty substantial kink, but their EP-series amps seem fine to me.