Its his bar... You're getting paid. Refer any customer complaints to the owner, making sure they understand that this is the policy of the bar, not you. Smile, take his money.
No stress. Simple.
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| Uncensored https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17230 |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Uncensored |
Ok, when I took my Thursday gig (which has turned into a Thursday, Friday, Saturday gig about every other week) the owner said he only had one rule. No rap/hiphop for the DJ music. It's ok for karaoke, just not DJ. The rule changed Thursday. I had a guy request Superman by Eminem. If you know the song, yes it drops a few f bombs. I have a lot of songs like that in my library and at the Thursday venue, it hasn't been a problem and I keep an eye on the customers but the crowd we have, it isn't a problem. As soon as the song started, the owner came to me and asked me not to let people play karaoke rap/hiphop that drops the f bomb. His reasoning is if he has a 60 year old man in the other room, he could be offended and leave. So I told him I would watch for these songs and within 5 minutes I had 2 requests for Closer by 9 inch nails and had to explain to the customers. I played last night and one of the bartenders requested to sing Talk dirty to me. No problem except he announced on the mic loudly that he wasn't going to perform unless everyone in red room get their f&$%ing a##s in the black room while the owner (and friend) stood in the middle of the dance floor smiling. He likes to watch the bartender perform as he can sing. So,,, double standard? I know he has a hard on for hip hop even though he told me Eminem is ok at home. I've censored at parties or gigs where children, or other types of crowds were around where obviously it would be an issue. At the bar, I've relaxed that censorship quite a bit. Now I have to tighten it back up. I do have a statement in my book (which I stole from this forum) stating that I reserve the right to stop the song if I realize it will be offensive or if they change the words to offensive language. Again however, I haven't had to ever shut the mic off. Your thoughts and experiences? |
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| Author: | karaoke koyote [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
Its his bar... You're getting paid. Refer any customer complaints to the owner, making sure they understand that this is the policy of the bar, not you. Smile, take his money.
No stress. Simple.
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| Author: | fsapienjr [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
As said, it is his place, and he can pretty much make or change rules as he see's fit. I am in complete control of my shows. If I see children or any other reason not to play bad lyrics, I don't allow it. When someone brings up a song that I know can be offensive for a particular crowd, I let them know I will not be playing this song, and why. As stated above, these songs can be sung it the singer can censor or edit themselves. I did a party for a family, and their kids wanted to sing Baby Got Back. I told the kid that I didn't think the adults would appreciate it due to the language. The kid told me he could do it without cursing, so I trusted him and let him sing it. Evertime he would come to a F-bomb, he just ommitted it. When the crowd or time of night permits, I will sing Closer. I say the first F-bomb, then I change the line to, "I want to do you like an animal". The people aren't stupid. They can see what the words really are, and seem to appreciate me not saying the F-bomb every time. Every situation is different, I have to flexability to adjust for each situation. Felix the KJ 
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| Author: | Babs [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
If the bar owner doesn't want certain types of music played thats fine. The thing that concerns me is the double standard. I would have a talk with him about that, so your on the same page. I'd have to explain the one thing that is important in being a host is treating everyone the same. People don't mind rules, but get upset when there are seperate rules for different people. If one person is told they can't sing so & so song that has to hold true for everyone. I think he would understand you just don't want to lose customers over it. I think it is important to make clear with an owner that wants to censor exactly what the rules will be before hand and that you won't change them during a show. If he decides he'd like to change his mind again it has to be before the show starts, so you can stay consistant and not lose customers. |
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| Author: | knightshow [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
Unfortunately, when it's the employee that everyone likes, people make exceptions... and exceptions can hurt you in a business that caters to the public. I'd sit back and tell the owner, "Hey, it's your world, but I can honestly see the double standard... so I think if you won't let me play songs with the F bomb, then perhaps the employees should say them either?" |
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| Author: | letitrip [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
I wouldn't go taking on the owner on it, that has no possible positive outcome and all it can do is start an argument that will lose the show for you. I don't edit my books unless I'm doing a party for minors (I have separate song books that I use in that case). So if a bar owner set such a policy for me, I can guarantee you that every time i had to turn a song away for someone I'd be doing it by saying "I'm sorry, but this bar has a policy that I can't play songs with profanity in them". Make it clear, without being a jerk, who is setting that rule. Don't sell the bar owner out by saying go talk to so-and-so it's his rule, just tell them it's the bar's policy and let them figure it out for themselves. This way you've done nothing that the owner can get upset about but you've made it clear to your guests that it's not your rule. |
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| Author: | Cueball [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
letitrip @ Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:47 am wrote: So if a bar owner set such a policy for me, I can guarantee you that every time i had to turn a song away for someone I'd be doing it by saying "I'm sorry, but this bar has a policy that I can't play songs with profanity in them". Make it clear, without being a jerk, who is setting that rule. Don't sell the bar owner out by saying go talk to so-and-so it's his rule, just tell them it's the bar's policy and let them figure it out for themselves. This way you've done nothing that the owner can get upset about but you've made it clear to your guests that it's not your rule.
I agree with this 100 percent. By stating that So-and-so said "No Profanity Allowed" and then telling people, "If you don't like it, go complain to So-and-so.", will only create animosity between you and the Manager/Owner/whoever. Nobody likes to be vilified in public, and sooner or later, that type of action will blow up in your face. That person may decide that Karaoke isn't worth all these headaches, and decide to just cancel it. Keep it anonymous, and if the people want to complain, let them figure out who to talk to on their own. |
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| Author: | Moonrider [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
ripman8 @ Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:42 pm wrote: As soon as the song started, the owner came to me and asked me not to let people play karaoke rap/hiphop that drops the f bomb. I've censored at parties or gigs where children, or other types of crowds were around where obviously it would be an issue. At the bar, I've relaxed that censorship quite a bit. Now I have to tighten it back up. Got two venues just like that. I make sure the singers know that the owner requested that things stay PG-13 rated, and please don't say the F-bombs and N-words. People are more than happy to support you, and quite a few actually have fun with creative substitute words. |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
Thanks all. Update. Someone wanted Puddle of Mudd. Not karaoke, just the song. Since the night was not marketed in anyway, we had very few karaoke singers. Quite a few at first then they left. Nearly a full house but no singers so I was playing dj songs and getting dancing. I told the requester that due to the f bombs in the song, I couldn't play it. He knew where it came from and came back a few minutes later with an ok to play it. I feel like a puppet sometimes. |
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| Author: | karaoke koyote [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
ripman8 @ Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:21 am wrote: Thanks all.
Update. Someone wanted Puddle of Mudd. Not karaoke, just the song. Since the night was not marketed in anyway, we had very few karaoke singers. Quite a few at first then they left. Nearly a full house but no singers so I was playing dj songs and getting dancing. I t old the requester that due to the f bombs in the song, I couldn't play it. He knew where it came from and came back a few minutes later with an ok to play it. I feel like a puppet sometimes. Welcome to the karaoke biz Rip.
I always non-committal in these things... i.e. never an absolute. "I been told not to play that, so that's not up to me." I leave it at that. If the owner says its ok, I smile, "Awesome! Lets do it!" and I play the song. The biggest thing is that everyone has a good time, and wants to come back again. With a variety of different personalities at play conflicts can arise and you will frequently find yourself in a "moderator" position between the customers and the staff.... through no fault or choice of your own. You could let this become a frustration for you, or just let it roll off. I choose to let it roll off. As long as there are smiles and good times, and I'm getting paid... what do I care. Is it right? Probably not. But right or wrong doesn't get you a paycheck. |
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| Author: | missbipbip [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
ripman8 @ Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:42 pm wrote: I had 2 requests for Closer by 9 inch nails
I've censored at parties or gigs where children, or other types of crowds were around where obviously it would be an issue. It is so interesting to me that this song has been mentioned. I had a problem with this very song Thurdsay night. The bar I work in has a crowd of mixed ages (21-60's), and we all get along fine. The owner doesn't like the f-bomb, n- word, etc., and many of the customers are offended also. I sort of land in the middle. I am way more relaxed than my mother (she's 52), and many things that she finds offensive just don't bother me. I don't like, however, to be listening to a song that makes me feel disrespected or dirty (unless it's a playful kind of dirty, if you know what I mean  ). Anyway, the way I handle this is by editing books. If a song is one I would consider generally offensive for a crowd, it's not available in my library. That way, not "secret exceptions" can be made by the owner or bartender or anyone else.
However, always comes the song I didn't realize was still in my book. Or the one I've never heard before and no one has ever tried to sing, so I didn't know it was horrific. So Thursday night, my mother ran my show for me so I could spend time with my family. A guy comes up and asks to sing "Closer" by Nine Inch Nails. He asked mom if he was allowed to sing it, and it prompted her to ask him what was in the song. Another customer mentioned that it had the f-bomb several times. Mom told the guy our policy, and he said he would just edit. This is the problem with having songs in your library that people must edit. You are depending on their honesty and integrity to do so. (And the world is just full of honest, respectable folks, isn't it?  ) Anyway, he bleeped out the first two f-bombs before he started accentuating them each time. He did that for the whole rest of the song. Now if I had been working the show, I would have warned him once more, then I would have turned him off mid-song. That's just me. Mom didn't want to cause a bigger problem. Besides, she said that her problem wasn't even with the f-bomb. The f-bomb over and over was nothing compared to the context of the song. When I listened to it, I have never been so embarrassed in my life that a song was in my book. I don't know...maybe just the "I want to violate you....desecrate you...penetrate you..." part???? The whole song was disgusting and degrading, and it will be removed from my books. I don't think much of a man who would even dream of uttering such crap out of his mouth with women around. Maybe some guys just never think about it, but I will never have a crowd appropriate enough for this song, because I never have a bar full of disgusting men that disrespect women that much.
The other problem with this kind of music is that it sort of guides the atmosphere of a bar. When people are singing songs that are fun, not offensive, people behave better. I am not big on watching people grind in a disgusting way or hearing people scream out obscenities over and over. When I start allowing people to sing these kinds of songs, people start acting accordingly. Later on in the night, his girlfriend sang "Crossfire", and during the instrumental break she shouted, "Hey Kevin, I want to f*** you like an animal." They knew it had been offensive to mom. They didn't care. I told mom I would have cut her off too. When people start behaving this way, I'm working in a bar where I feel nasty and immoral and disrespected. I refuse to come home from work feeling disrespected. I'll make more money on the street corner, or I'll just stay home. It's karaoke...not a w****house. That's how I feel. The main point is, if you don't want a problem with double standards, just remove the song from your library. That's how I handle it. I have enough decent songs in my book for people to sing; they don't have to choose songs that are disrespectful and offensive. I do feel that you should treat people fairly at all times. And if a song is a problem, tell the singer it is bar policy. I've learned not to let customers promise that they won't say the bad words. They will more often than not. Then you are mad at them for not keeping their word, or in my case I have to stand there with my finger on the mic volume cutting them off each time. And I have done that before. When they say "Hey, you cut me off!!" I just say, "I told you so." Most of my customers think it is funny that I do that, and they make jokes about it. They don't mind, but they also respect our policy and don't do things like that anyway. It's tourists we have a problem with. Another song I had trouble with was "Total Eclipse of the Heart". I knew some movie must have come out or something when I started having groups of guys want to sing this song and kept adding f-bombs to it. I warn them advance now. I really hate it when people start adding cuss words to songs that are not there. |
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| Author: | KaraokeJerry [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
Wow, "Closer" almost got me fired from a gig one night. I was working a huge country dance-bar, doing karaoke in a side room, some good ol' boys put up "Closer" which I started at just the time I absolutely HAD to make a potty run. By the time I got back, there were four or five bar managers waiting for me, to inform (in their own colorful language) that the bar did not appreciate NIN. I've been extra-careful ever since to know all the songs that might cause trouble. |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
My club has had a no f-bom in song or on stage for that matter since i've started. I just explain to the people that want them that it's the rule of the bar that can't allow these songs. The ones that really complain are usually the ones that caused problems anyway, the rest seem to understand & pick other songs. Now the entire crowd is so in tune with it, if they hear people say anything on stage, THEY jump on it first before I get a chance to say anything. |
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| Author: | Babs [ Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
My problem with the censor thing came up in a different ways. Once the bar owner didn't want Spanish songs sung with the decision coming in the middle of the night because he didn't want Mexicans in the bar. Okay not only was this racist, but to decide in the middle of the night when it was apparently racist was wrong. If he wants to censor out Spanish songs that's fine, but make the decision before hand, so people aren't offended. The other time it was one particular regular that sang songs that having screaming in them. The song "Bodies" was one of them. He told me he did not want that song and another one he was singing to be sung because he didn't like them. Well long story short. He buckled under the pressure of the crowd. Everyone wanted to hear the songs, so he okayed it. The funny thing is the song "Bodies" became so popular for him to sing, people cheered for him to do it every time he came in. 
I talked to the bar owner about the censorship and he understands from his past decisions if he wants a song or songs not to be sung the decisions have to be made before the start of the night. Actually I think he has learned to just let me make the decisions because everytime he has put his 2 cents in it's back fired. Of course in both incidences I tried to explain he is the owner, but I disagree. It was a learning experience for both of us. |
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| Author: | missbipbip [ Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
"Bodies" is so funny too!!! The first time one of my customers sang the song, I thought ...What the??? I loved it!! The bar loved it!! They make him sing it all the time now, when they can get him too. It rocks. At least it's not the f bomb and disrespectful. |
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| Author: | classickaraoke [ Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
I'm kind of against removing songs from my books but will censor the titles in the books. Every now and then I find a new offensive song gets sung and learn from that. I always knew NIN closer was colorful and always get permission from the bar to play it each time. Should I censor / remove the Rodeo Song because it refers to Gooks? Personally I'll sing it and change the words to something that's not racist (after all, the rest of the song is funny). I may hate what you have to say but I'll die to keep your right to say it. Even Weird Al did a polka that included 'Closer' in a comedic censored form. Embrace the opportunity to be creative! Jonn |
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| Author: | diafel [ Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
classickaraoke @ Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:32 am wrote: Should I censor / remove the Rodeo Song because it refers to Gooks?
Say What? Where on earth did you get the idea that there's racist references of ANY kind in the Rodeo song, never mind "gooks"? I remember well when the song came out and all it references is a cowboy. Perhaps you're mistaking the word GOOF for gook? I promise you, if you listen to the original by Showdown, you WILL hear "goof" NOT gook. Here's the lyrics ( I'm sure the board will automatically censor it, but you'll get the idea). Well it's forty below And I don't give a (@$%&#!) Got a heater in my truck And I'm off to the rodeo It's an allamande left And allamande right C'mon you (@$%&#!)' dummy Get your right step right Get offstage you goddamn goof Y'know you piss me off You (@$%&#!) jerk Get on my nerves Well here comes Johnny With his (@$%&#!) in his hand He's a one-ball man And he's off to the rodeo It's an allamande left And allamande right C'mon you (@$%&#!)' dummy Get your right step right Get offstage you goddamn goof Y'know you piss me off You (@$%&#!) jerk Get on my nerves (INSTRUMENTAL) Well it's forty below And I ain't got a truck And I don't give a (@$%&#!) 'Cause I'm off to the rodeo It's an allamande left And allamande right C'mon you (@$%&#!)' dummy Get your right step right Get offstage you goddamn goof Y'know you piss me off You (@$%&#!) jerk Get on my nerves Well heer comes Johnny With his (@$%&#!) in his hand He's a one-ball man And he's off to the rodeo It's an allamande left And allamande right C'mon you (@$%&#!)' dummy Get your right step right Get offstage you goddamn goof Y'know you piss me off You (@$%&#!) jerk Get on my nerves |
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| Author: | Babs [ Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
Oh my I've heard of versions of songs getting the words wrong, but that is a bad mistake. If your version has "Gook" in it, I'd find a different one 
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| Author: | atxklown [ Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
I always find that funny when there's a time that these songs can be sung. And this bar was 21+ already. And in the songbook they maybe labled exp lyrics, I do look in the new songs and find a song that isn't labled and sing those. I do self edit myself and during an instrumental break I usually say "Sorry I couldn't say it, even though we can smoke, drink, and those one night standers out there will probably catch something, At least our ears wont be violated with a dirty word" And about the ones who might be offended, I'm sure the 60 yr old man has done the things back in his younger days. |
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| Author: | classickaraoke [ Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncensored |
The version of Rodeo Song was on Sound Choice...Songs Your Mama Wouldn't Let You Sing. I've never heard the original recording of the song so I can't say for sure if SC got it 'right' or not. It wouldn't be the first country song with racial slurs. Jonn |
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