Karaoke Forums

Again, born from another thread. It questions how we value our selves and our service compared to how the venue owners/mangers value us and what we do.

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EveningStar Entertainment & Events
JR & Michele LaPorte
Peoria, AZ

my Karaoke residency rate is based on Bar takings.We also have three nights a week just DJ'ing at another place. They offered us a nightly rate at this place that we accepted.... Private work ie Birthdays Weddings etc I set the price.

My one gig a week is also based on bar takings.
It appears it is up to me to make the cash register happy.

Although I do have an initial requirement of min $150 the fees are negotiated according to z tape and with the understanding my fees will go up. After being at a gig for 6 months or more each side tends to be more flexible if both have the same goals.

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I set the fee for every event. If you want my services you will pay my fee. Do you go to the doctor and tell him what you want to pay? He sets his fee based on his expertise and education.

I never work for a bar owner that's wants to set my fee by telling me what he is only willing to pay. Well then you can not afford me. That's OK. I can't afford plastice surgery either.

I negotiate the price with the owner, and if we can come to an agreeable price, we have a deal, of course, nothing is etched in stone, it all depends how things work out for both of us. But then again, I didn't have to go to college like MY doctor did, nor do I have a degree in Karaoke Hosting, so I guess I have to settlr for what I can get.

Rosario

Two words I haven't seen yet in this discussion.

Market conditions

If the most common price to hire a responsible, entertaining, legal show is $150, if you want more you're going to have to demonstrate to the bar owner why. Will you do promotion on their behalf? Do you have any kind of following? What can you do to ring the register more than the competition? If it's nothing but your "talent" - it's only worth what you can convince someone to pay. Talent along won't increase the till.

I can go pitch a new show and ask for anything sum I choose. As to whether that is has value to the owner as competitive and reasonable given local market conditions, is another story.

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I have a set price, it doesn't change for the owner unless they want to book multiple in a row nights, then they get a discount. I do not book in clubs (mainly smaller clubs 50 or less searts) that I don't feel would benefit from my price to begin with. These are the types of clubs that tend to gripe about price. I look for clubs that can support 50-200 or more people. My price is set, if they don't pay, I don't play. Sometimes I have gone in with a higher than my normal price & then 'work them a deal' to my set price. But no the venue don't tell me what they pay me, I tell them what I charge!

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If I am getting paid a percentage of the Bar take..then i definitely feel "Market Conditions" come into it.

We do one of our six shows based on the tape. It averages out to $170/show, howeve, on a bad night (Tuesday), and you get a cheque for $50, you sometimes forget about the $250+ shows. So a word of advice for those who take a percentage, average it out over a period of time (preferably a year) to see if it's worth it.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I would never do a show based on a percentage. I've seen that kind of deal go awry. I tell th bar what I charge, and if they have a problem with it, we can reach an agreement, and like Lonman, if the show is for more than one night a week discounts are considered.

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

I like Lonman stay away from the small bars. You know even if you pack the place nobody is going to make enough money to be happy about it. So i look at bigger bars.

I had a problem doing a bar that wanted to pay on the tape. I will never play for the tape again. It cost me too much money. I don't negotiate anything but the introductory offer price. The full price doesn't change only the breakin period money does. After that period of time it's full money i charge every night. Not what someobody else thinks i'm worth.

Market conditions matter to the extent of your competition. How much they are charging and if they are worse or better than me. But i don't negotiate.

Hi Mrs Bar Owner, i'm Angel nice to meet you. I charge XXX for 4 hours. I'll do a breakin period for XXX weeks at this price. After that I want full money. That's the negotiation. I tell them what i'll do for XXX. No dickering about my fee. Anything less i'm not interested. No break on the price if i do multiple nights or leave my equipment. I can just as easily take it with me every night..especially if it means the difference between getting full money or a discount. I'm picking full money.

My price doesn't matter if there are 50 people in the bar or 500. I have the same amount of work to do and it takes the same amount of time. I have to drive the same distance.

I also have turned down smaller bars. I have a set price, and I know some of the smaller places can't afford me. When I first started, I would take smaller gigs for less money, but I now have the luxury of not having to.

Please take time to really think about this. I am no different than any of you when it comes to setting my fees. There are minimums I will work for as well. None of us will agree, nor do we need to.

It’s just a matter of fact, price equates to value, but who’s?

Purely from a philosophical perspective, and this applies to any entity holding the purse strings (including ourselves). If the owner/manager declines to hire us based on the fee, then it appears that they don't put the same value on our service that we do, ipso-facto they have set the fee to a level less than we are willing to accept. Similarly if they are willing to accept our fee with or without negotiation, then they have still set the fee by valuing our service the same as we do.

The same applies to us as consumers. We buy or, won’t buy, products or services based on how we value the commodity. The users of our services aren’t any different than we are.

Oh yes, we have the option to accept, decline or otherwise negotiate. But in the long-run, they have set the price regardless of market conditions or competition based on perceived value.

So let’s not be so naïve to think we hold the upper hand when it comes to this topic.

And other thing to think about; what happens when our basic needs outweigh our values?

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EveningStar Entertainment & Events
JR & Michele LaPorte
Peoria, AZ

Well yes it is a two way street, the owners set what they are willing to pay, I set what I am willing to accept. If the price is not, met, I move on.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Very well put jr, couldn't have said it better myself.

Rosario

Every product and service has a value. That value is determined by costs of raw materials, cost of labor, cost of insurances, time and many other things. Then you have to add in the margin of profit you can reasonably get.

There are cars and then there are luxury cars. I do not drive a luxury car. For one i can not afford it. Two most times i can't justify the price compared with what i need and want.

Professionals like doctors and lawyers set their prices based on their education, their experience and insurances, rent and their reputation.

I feel i am in that catagory because of my experience, reputation and sound system. Just like all of the previous examples, that is how i set my fee. I may be in the luxury catagory. Some bar owners will be able to afford my services and some won't. The ones that can't or don't want to are not my concern. I will not negotiate my price. It has taken many years to get to this level. OJ Simpson didn't hire the public defender to escape jail for two murders. He hired the best his money could buy. He didn't ask them to take a cut or negotiate their price. He wanted them and he paid what they wanted. My time and experience is worth money. Maybe your time or lack of experience is not as valuable to you.

If i can deliver my worth they will keep me and be happy to pay my price. If i fail to deliver as promised they fire me. That is how business runs everyday. But i am not working for less than my fee, except for the breakin period. That is my choice and i set that price. Not the bar owner. I control the amount of all the money they pay me. That doesn't make me an egomaniac. That makes me a good businesswoman that knows her worth. It's a reflection of my level of success. Nothing else.

There are many bar owners that have decided what they think KJs are worth to them. These bar owners are not normally the most successful. They could have come to their conclusion because of bad experience with many bad KJs they have seen or hired and fired. This is their opinion of a KJs worth. It's what they are willing to pay. That doesn't mean that is what i'm worth. I do not want to be lumped in with every other bad KJ running down the road. They may be worth what the bar owner thinks. They may be happy to work for what the bar owner wants to pay.

I'm egotistical or arragant if i won't work for what THEY want to pay? What do you call KJs that are willing to work for whatever SOMEONE ELSE thinks and decides you're worth? What would be a good description?

Push over
Chump
Not too smart....

The Bar where I work for a percentage....WOULDN'T have had karaoke if I hadnt proposed the % situation. I altogether have work going on 6 nights a week. Only 1 night is for a percentage...BUT this is where I built my reputation. I earnt the other 5 nights off the back of this gig.

Also,this night is now SUCH a successs,I earn USUALLY £120 GBP ( around $185)...with absolutely NO equipment to set up (I use the owners) every Friday. When I started it was @£40gbp ($70???)