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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:03 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Sub Hook Up | ||
I want to be able to control the volume of my Carvin sub separate from everything else. In the diagram below, this works. But, is it a safe, ok method? I want the best method possible.
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| Author: | RLC [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
I am assuming you meant for the red arrow to be pointing to the input, not the Thru (output). Are you then sending a full full range signal to your tops or are you using a seperate crossover? |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
No and no. Using the monitor/phones knob in bottom right corner to control the volume separately. |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
No, this is not what you want. The Phones hookup is stereo, and unless you have a custom cable made you are attaching it to a balanced mono channel. Even if you did have the custom cable made, you would be getting only the left or the right channel. Since the vocal channels should have very little going to your sub, you can in effect control it's volume with the LOW eq on your music channel. |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
This is not a good solution for several reasons: 1) stereo headphone signal into balanced amplifier input will cause cancellation, so be sure to use a unbalanced, mono cable which does not "Y" the two input signals together 2) you can't use your mixer's PFL/AFL capabilities anymore 3) you still need outboard LPF on the sub signal, and HPF on the top signal. It is not clear to me whether or not your amplifier / powered speakers / whatever provide this. 4) why do you want more control of the sub power than the channel strip EQ provides? I suggest you get an outboard cross-over. This will be a much better solution for you. You can get older analog models for under $100, especially the Behringer units |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:49 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up | ||
So what is the best solution? Attachment below also shows how I have my mains hooked thru the mixer. Is this not good?
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
jeffsw6 @ Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:21 am wrote: I suggest you get an outboard cross-over.
If you really want to turn your subs up and down independently, my above suggestion is the best one I have for you. If you will be adjusting it frequently, an analog unit will be easier than a digital one like the DriveRack products. |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
Not familiar with outboard crossover. |
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| Author: | Sonick [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
Not sure how to help you but I just got the same mixer your using 2 days ago and LOVE it! Have been using a behringer ub1622fx pro for years... |
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| Author: | eben [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
Sometime in the near future I need to add a sub and did a bit of research. The outboard crossover is something like this: dbx. This is one of the unit I am considering. It takes the output from your mixer and separates the frequencies to multiple output, which then can be attached to powered speakers or amps. |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
eben is spot-on. For a cheap unit, look for a Behringer Super-X. |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
So that is the best way? Is there a way I can do it with my current set up temporarily? |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
If it sounds satisfactory to you using the built-in crossovers in your powered speakers and the headphone jack to supply the subs, sure. Just make sure you get a cable with appropriate wiring. Like I mentioned a few posts ago, you do not want to connect a stereo signal into a balanced input. It won't damage anything but it will not make much sound and definitely won't do what you want. Personally, I hate being without my headphones. They are a very useful tool. If you've never tried it, go buy some. I just have $50ea Sennheiser HD205s. |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
I have a pair of Numark headphones, I plug them into the Alpha so that isn't an issue. The sub has some serious thump to it the way I have it hooked up but obviously I should not be running it this way. Is there not a way to run it to a different channel on my mixer? |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
Well, I guess you could use the main L output of your mixer to drive your tops, and the R output for subs. You could take the R cable, connect it to a channel strip line input, then use an insert cable to get the signal back out post-gain-pot. The gain knob on that channel strip would control the sub signal level. This would be an unbalanced signal, and perhaps not too good for a long run if the sub is far away. That is a solvable problem with a DI box. This is a creative solution, but not a good one. What you should do is invest in a crossover. |
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| Author: | LondonLive [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
Hi Bob, how are them Yorkville's doing for you. Anyway, if you have an AUX SEND on your board available the best way to run your sub would be to run what is called an "AUX FED SUB". Let me know if you have one open and I will explain how to do it. It's highly effective and the preferred method used by most of the pro's these days. |
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| Author: | eben [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
LondonLive @ Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:06 pm wrote: Hi Bob, how are them Yorkville's doing for you. Anyway, if you have an AUX SEND on your board available the best way to run your sub would be to run what is called an "AUX FED SUB". Let me know if you have one open and I will explain how to do it. It's highly effective and the preferred method used by most of the pro's these days.
The only issue with that setup is inefficiency of speakers. You are still send the entire frequency spectrum to both the sub and the speakers. Using the outboard cross over, you are only sending low frequency to sub and higher frequency to the speakers, thus each can optimize the output. Having higher frequency signal to sub makes it less efficient, thus less thump you will get from the sub. I think the best way to achieve best sound and maximize the power is to use the crossover. |
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| Author: | LondonLive [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
eben @ Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:18 pm wrote: LondonLive @ Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:06 pm wrote: Hi Bob, how are them Yorkville's doing for you. Anyway, if you have an AUX SEND on your board available the best way to run your sub would be to run what is called an "AUX FED SUB". Let me know if you have one open and I will explain how to do it. It's highly effective and the preferred method used by most of the pro's these days. The only issue with that setup is inefficiency of speakers. You are still send the entire frequency spectrum to both the sub and the speakers. Using the outboard cross over, you are only sending low frequency to sub and higher frequency to the speakers, thus each can optimize the output. Having higher frequency signal to sub makes it less efficient, thus less thump you will get from the sub. I think the best way to achieve best sound and maximize the power is to use the crossover. Of course using a crossover is the preferred method, however, Bob asked how he could improve his control by using only what he owns now, which doesn't include a crossover. In his situation I would only send the music channel via an Aux to the sub, adjusting the amount of low frequency needed with the AUX Send control. The remainder of the music will still feed the uppers along with his vocal channels via the "Mains" out. (you do not need nor want vocals going to a sub) This is very effective and also cleans up over all clarity of the system. It works better with a crossover but with his sub having a passive it will work well enough and afford him better control over the sub. I didn't invent this method, it has been practiced for years. |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
He has powered subs and tops with integrated crossovers. I don't know that they are designed to work together, and outboard would be better. He has only two AUXes, one pre-fader and one post-fader, which is likely in use for the FX. 
Seriously, an outboard crossover will cost him $50 - $150 for an entry-level Behringer Super-X. This is better than hacking something up, sacrificing FX, monitors, or PFL bus & headphones, etc. And he has nice speakers which he clearly invested some money in, so may as well invest in a crossover to make them work the way he wants. |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sub Hook Up |
I appreciate all the help. I am looking for a short term (so I don't miss any gigs) solution and a long term solution. Currently I have been hooking up my stage monitor thru the aux jack (third row from the right, 2nd port down. JD are you telling me to plug m1.4" into that port or the one below? Will that work with my powered sub? Yorkies have been great JDLast Thursday I ran without the sub for awhile and turned the lows up on the board for the Yorkies and the bass coming out of these lightweight 12" mains is pretty impressive. I've had a number of knowledgeable people in my area ask about my sound and shake their heads. Even competitors. But I still want my rumble back from the Carvin. |
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