Karaoke Forums

Hi guys,
I've fallen in love with Karaoke, and about 6 months ago I started acquiring all the music, gear, etc, to do KJ'ing.

The concept of karaoke really fills me with fuzzies because I love it how it gets anyone up there to sing. I don't care if they sing badly, as long as they have fun.

About a month or two ago I finally had enough gear to do a simple show so I started calling around, got a gig in a bar down the road. He committed to 5 nights, one Friday, then 4 Thursdays(hoping to move the regulars to the Thursday night). He was happy with the Friday night show, and told me to hold off that Thursday because he was placing advertising in the paper for the show.

2 weeks later, I set up in a completely dead bar. Apparently all the regulars had pitched last week asking about it, and obviously thought it wasn't happening so that fell flat. I basically got told the next day that they weren't interested in any more shows. With enough digging, I think he thought I was pushing away the diners, but there were only about 3 groups of diners to begin with at the night.

That was my first gig I lost, two weeks in, to say I was disappointed was an understatement but I soldiered on and got another Saturday night gig. I offered them a discounted rate for their first show(by their request), and threw in a 1000 unit flyer drop in the neighbourhood.

That was last weekend, and it wasn't great. For one thing, a power plug got kicked out midsong, killing the rig, but I soon traced the problem. The show started at 8PM, promptly, and eventually a family brought some little kiddies. Not having any other singers volunteering, I let them sing a few songs. My friends were due to arrive at 9:30-10:00, and I was hoping they'd carry the show.

At about 9:10PM the bar staff told me they'd like to close early so end at about 9:30. I was very annoyed but informed the 20~ or so people in the bar. I asked the manager if they were happy with my show and they said it was fine, but probably would be more suited towards mid-week. At 10PM, after I'd packed up, there were 5 people left in the bar.

The next Tuesday, I spoke to the owner, and she seemed pissed off at me. I mentioned I had to tell my regulars not to come in after the show because they forced me to end the show so early, and apparently it was MY fault that A.) I didn't sit there and argue with the bar staff and inform them more people were coming, and B.) the little kids sang a few songs and weren't kicked out by me promptly. She spouted out BS about me not being professional, etc.

If I'm asked to end a show early by the manager, I view it as professionalism not to argue the point, and pack up quickly and efficiently and end exactly on time as I did.

Now, Obviously I could've fixed some situations with 100% hindsight, but I ask you, who has been so dedicated to read through this massive post, is it me, or is this par for the course?

I have another one off gig at a bar tomorrow night, they're in the midst of a competition and their regular KJ couldn't make it so they asked me to come in and do a show.

I'm based in NZ, by the way.

Cheers!
Neongreen

The one thing KJ's and MANAGEMENT need to realize is that "new" karaoke shows take time to GROW and mature. Even 1000 flyers in an area are not all that is required to #1) Get people to leave one show for another #2) Bring in NEW karaoke singers.

Besides the basics of a good show the one thing that is REQUIRED to grow a show is CONSISTENCY. SAME DAY SAME TIME ..rain or shine ...packed or empty

If you build it they will come !!!

Unfortunately MANY owners and managers expect an increase in profit from the very first show ...they EXPECT the KJ to bring in the business.

I'm starting to think that my comeback to owners when they ask me HOW BIG IS YOUR FOLLOWING I should say ...If I had enough people to follow me --I might as well just get a Liquor License and open my own bar. It is not SOLEY the KJ's responsibility to fill the seats.

I went out of my way to explain that a minimum of 6 shows were required to begin to set up a following. The first venue had me booked for 5 nights, and the second wanted me for 6.

Both owners seemed to be, well, idiots. Typical?

Idiots may be too strong a word. But the truth is that business owners only HEAR and understand one thing ( the sound of money in the drawer)

Starting a NEW karaoke show in your bar takes an INVESTMENT of time and money
What happens is this ....if they are looking to ADD karaoke their business is probably off for that night so they are looking to INCREASE the profit on karaoke night. But they don't realize to budget for those 5-6 weeks without an increase in profit and then after 6 weeks JUDGE to see if it is picking up. $$$$

Neon, the only thing I think you did wrong, was to listen to the BARTENDER. You were not hired by the bartender, and should politely let them know that you were hired to do a show from this time til that time. If they wanted to cut the show shorter, THEY would have to contact the OWNER, and have him tell you to shut down.
Always listen to the person who hired you, NOT one of their EMPLOYEES.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke

Sorry you're having a rough start !

Keep at it you're just going through the growing pains of finding a gig. Take it as a learning lesson that you need to find out exactly who's calling the shots. You should discuss scenerios like this with the person that hires you - closing early, them cancelling the show etc... Not that it's your fault the manager and owner aren't on the same page. Also explain that it takes time to build a following. Let them know the efforts you're putting in to advertise and what they are willing to do. All bar owners aren't stupid just not knowledgable.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

normally in the absence of a MANAGER or OWNER the bartenders are usually in charge.


best to ask this question when booking your next gig

Try this

When the show is not being supported by the bar as you would expect and the manager/owner that hired you is not around. Ask to speak with him/her during the problem.

If that is not possible, leave them a voice mail as you are dealing with the problem.

If that is not possible, call them the very next day and explain what happened while getting clarification as to how on the staff has the authority to make decisions, particularly one to shut you down.

We had this problem last winter. The bar tendress kept wanting to shut down early as it was her "Friday" and we were trying to build up a clientele. It was her call but if we complained to the owner it would make an enemy of her and we needed her support of our new show.

The situation was resolved when a customer made the complaint and the owner started checking the cash register tape for the time she closed out. The advice above to have a customer do the complaining was good as you have to be able to still work with the staff. But talking to the owner to clear up the protocol is also a good idea.

Idiots. Correct.

Welcome to the world of karaoke.

4-6 weeks to build is good with a price break all weeks. Then full money if the crowd is there. State that upfront.

I would question the bar owner about how serious he is about making money from karaoke. Karaoke is a big money maker when done correctly. Bartenders that don't like karaoke are not helping. Get one that likes karaoke or switch nights to one that does.

Don't start the show early to let little kids chase away the paying grown ups. If people wanted daycare karaoke they would have stayed home with their own kids.

If the bar staff is going to work against you, get out. Run fast. Don't look back. Move on. Get over it. Use it as an experience and don't do it again.

I do agree I probably should've called the owner. Hindsight is great like that. In future I will.

As long as I know this is understandable until a stable gig is found, I'll keep soldiering on. Thanks for all your input guys.

Also if I was just told to end early, then I probably would've been in a more questioning mood. However they said they were closing early so I just thought this was the usual closing time for the Saturday.

I've come across this problem some when I've been hired out to do one-night parties in bars that are used to shutting down early. I'm thinking of a specific motor inn lounge that I was doing a party in last fall. The staff was used to getting off at 10 and they wanted to stick to their light schedule. Right in the middle of what I thought was my shift the bartender walked over to me and told me to shut it down because it was time to close. What wimps! Anyway I did get into their faces. It pissed me off.

So yeah if this comes up again you need to talk to the owner about just what the operating hours are and get a commitment from the staff to stick to it.

The saga continues:

Midway through my gig, my speakers blew. Now I was using 2x 100w speakers with a 2 channel 100 watt amp, pushing it moderately hard. Anyway, guy comes in, powerful voice, boom, distortion, speakers progressively get worse.

Lesson learned. 1.5x the output of the amp is the speaker wattage I shall use in the future, at the very least. This one was my fault, I should've paid attention to this, but all my money has been going to procuring songs..

If only I could have one gig where everything went according to plan.

Wow, that is very unfortunate!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

What model amp & speakers? Sounds like they are too small for actual club work - sorry to say.

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I was aware these particular ones were quite small, but I thought the venue I was going to be operating in was a lot smaller, etc. It was a 60km drive each way, and I was coming in to help on very short notice so didn't get a chance to check the size of the venue.

It's no problem because I learned a lot through the night and loved it, when things weren't blowing up!

I'll be getting some active 400w Wharfedale speakers for future use.

Wrong conclusion. The reason your speakers blew was because the amp was underpowered for the venue, you were pushing it too hard and you ran out of headroom when "Ol' Leatherlungs" opened up.

Clipping and distortion from an amp pushed too hard will kill a speaker rated for 10x the power the amp can put out in minutes, whereas I've run all night long without a problem with an amp rated for 10x the RMS rating of a speaker.

You want to make sure the amp has enough power to keep sending a clean signal to the speakers.

Here's a good page for learning some of the basics about PA systems. It's very basic, but far more than most KJs in my area bother to learn

http://colomar.com/Shavano/pa_page.html

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Dave's not here.

Nice link Moonrider -- looks like some good stuff there that wouldn't hurt me to learn.

Neongreen - I'm still learning a lot myself, BUT here's three things I believe based off my own limited experience and the advice of some people a lot smarter than me....

1) If I had it to do all over again -- I'd have spent a lot more money on my sound system and a lot less on music to start with. You never know whether people will ever sing off a disc you buy, but they will always hear how you and your gear makes them sound.

2) Buying used gear of high quality is better than buying new junk. Your speakers are critical to running good sound -- I don't know a thing about the brand you mentioned -- it may be just fine - maybe Lonnie can help your out more. I've been very satisfied with my used Peavey SP-5Gs and they didn't break my bank. Of course you also need an amp with enough ooomph to drive them as Moonrider mentioned.

3) A compressor can be had pretty cheaply and it would help protect your system and make you sound a lot better. You're going to be dealing with a fair number of screaming drunks if you stay in this business.

Moonrider; I believe you are correct. I actually arrived at this conclusion as well a few hours ago after examining everything, I'm very sure it was the amp that was being overdriven.

Wharfedale are a fairly cheap but decent brand, far far far above cheap chinese jobbies/consumer audio(just to help you place it on the scale). I have seen a few KJs around here using them and I like their sound. Hopefully they'll let me keep on running until I can step up to a JBL or Mackie setup.

Thanks very much for the link, It's a bit much to take in at once but I'm definitely going to work my way through it. It's a gold mine! Thanks to all of you, I was fairly certain I was going to be blasted down because I was so inexperienced in all of this... just learning my way as I go along!

(EDIT: For what it's worth, turns out I only blew out one speaker, only get highly distorted higher ranges on it. The other seems to be damaged slightly so it's a tiny bit temperamental but other than that it's fine.)

You must be on the other side of the pond? Wharfdale is more of a UK speaker. MorganLeFay uses them & swears by them. Just try to watch the 'ohms' of the speaker - typically 8 or 4, check the RMS/PROGRAM/PEAK ratings & match the amp close to a little more than the 'PROGRAM' rating & you should be good to go.

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