Karaoke Forums

So here we are using Portland as an example again--but not about 75$ KJ's. This time about the possiblity that the Karaoke tidal wave is RECEEDING, in other words, the number of venues drying up and disappearing.

Tonight I took a drive out to Sandy(half-way between PDX and Mt. Hood) to check a long time Karoake place. NO LONGER THERE!! Turned into a restaurant that only offered bands on the weekend!!

Headed back to PDX to check some other places I hadnt been to in quite sometime---KARAOKE GONE!!! No bands either or places CLOSED and SHUTTERED!!

One place I popped into(and this will warm D-Dan's heart) was a place called the Farmhouse---well they now have covered up thier ample stage/dance floor with 2 POOL TABLES!! Where they used to have a good sized DJ rack and table---now its right by the end of the bar in a rack no larger than a teachers PODIUM!!!

Another place closer to downtown---KARAOKE GONE!!

They never replaced Karaoke at Matt's old gig.

A place down south where I drop newspapers dropped Karoake quite a while ago in favor of bands only----but now---THEIR STAGE IS COVERED UP WITH VIDEO
GAMES!!!!

Another place down there had long-time Karaoke--NOW GONE TOO! I used to like to pop in and sing a couple songs when delivering papers there!!

But its almost like Karaoke places are DISAPPEARING -EN MASS!!

What gives???

Surely Karaoke still makes money??

Are the owners being scared away by the Karaoke Police?? Or is it really just the recession???

WTF MATE??

Anyone else observe this phenomenon???

Lonnie? D-Dan? Babs? Timber? Cue? Anyone else in other regions???

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I know our numbers have been down the last year - especially when gas prices were so high last year, that ate into many peoples entertainment budget. Plus we have a pretty high unemployment rate right now, so no money coming in to people, they can't go out to spend it. I know of a few clubs around here that have quit karaoke in favor of other entertainment, dropped all entertainment entirely or have closed altogether. One club that was one of the hotter live music clubs, dropped ALL entertainment, then closed their doors & are remodeling into a restaurant.

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Well, I haven't noticed any real decline or closing of places that have/had Karaoke. When one place cancels Karaoke, some other place starts it. I have been seeing a bit of a decline of attendance (at some of my regular stomping grounds), where it used to always be 2 hour rotations (and now it's less than a 1 hour rotation (in some cases)).

as I said on another thread we have seen increases on weekends but I have also seen the pirate karoke companies going by the waste side not because of legal problems but for the same reason they tried to cut into the karoke world. Tey had no money to invest in hier music library now they can't maintain their equipment or advertise because..... They make nothing.

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CHECK YOUR ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR, STICK AROUND YOU JUST MIGHT HAVE SOME FUN

I had a couple of gigs to cancel on me too this summer. One of them started this summer, and the bar seemed to be doing good on that night. They said they couldn't afford to do it anymore. (Of course, my rate is not $75 a night either). But the other gig had been going for over a year. Their crowds had just dwindled to nothing. He is having $50 DJs in his bar now, and the other one isn't doing anything. Lucky for me, I have a steady gig that is 4 nights a week, and it is a very successful venue. Been there 5 years now, and they love it. I probably wouldn't be a KJ without that gig. I'd probably open my own bar, which I think about often. I just don't like the idea of going from place to place begging for a chance to make a gig work somewhere. One thing I don't understand, however, is bars that "can't afford" to have karaoke, but they have live bands. They usually cost more than what our fees are. In my year long venue, he didn't want to pay my rate. He stated that he usually paid his acoustic acts $75 a night. I had to explain that I wasn't exactly an acoustic act. I had more equipment and definately more expenses. He agreed to pay more, but I think it also has contributed to me losing that gig. Bar owners just don't want to pay it. Sad to say, but being a KJ really is a part time job unless you are one of the lucky few.

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It's called Karaoke Therapy...

Karaoke is regional, I think. I travel a lot, and have been to almost 200 different gigs in 25 states and provinces. I just obtained a new home in Cocoa Beach, FL, where I will spend some time every year. Karaoke is *everywhere* here. There is a great local web site that has up to date gig schedules. The singers are real good in general. In fact, this place is as close to karaoke heaven as I have seen for a singer.

The other thing is, gigs close and they open. Unless you know an area really really well, and keep your ear to the ground, they can move to places that you don't realize.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Cat, this could be the result of being the pirate capital of the NW - eventually bars can't even pay out the $75 if the crowds dwindle to nothing. My experience is that the majority of the pirate multiriggers don't hire good hosts - and anybody who is really good a lot of times just gets the funding together and goes out on their own.

I have noticed a drop in one of our shows but can trace the tracks of those that don't come in any more - different job, relocation, family issues, etc., etc. Not becuase they don't like the come to karaoke at that place.

I just started my other gig this summer and it's been tremendous -- but I'm working in a place where the average age of the patronage is probably 45-50 or more, a well established and loved venue. They have fantastic ownership and management, the food is great, the servers are very good. This quickly developed into my favorite place to work as far as smaller venues. It's been a trick getting the second night going, bringing in new faces (Thursdays it is the regulars who populate the chairs) especially since this place has never had any sort of entertainment at all, but they also understand that even though Thursday nights hit the ground running, Fridays are a different animal. I have no doubt this will succeed because I am working with ownership who actually LISTEN to me, and take my long years of experience in the business to mean something.

k

Here in St. Petersburg, FL, my number have been down on average over the past few years, but not much. Maybe 10-15%.

I do notice that there are alot less bars doing karaoke, and lots of those same bars are struggling, or closed. I think that is due to short-minded bar owner who don't see the value. Most of the ones that are closing down or dropping karaoke are the smaller bars that pay like $50-75 a night for karaoke. Well, a smart bar owner knows that they can write off entertainment.

If you are a small bar paying $50-75 a night, then you write off the $50-75 a night on your taxes @ around 35-40%, then you are really paying about $33-50 a night in real working capital for that karaoke show. Now, if that karaoke show is responsible for just about $100.00-150.00 extra in sales, or say 5-8 extra patrons, then it has paid for itself. Any more than 5-8 extra patrons, and it is making your bar $$$. Not to mention, it is something going on at your bar....an event that will get new people in that may come back on a non-karaoke night. Drop your entertainment, and you are just another sh**ty hole in the wall with a few regular lushes where Friday is no different than Monday.

Anyway, I think restaurants in particular (or bars that serve food) have been hit hard by the recession, but should be recovering and will be hopping with patrons, working capital, and more entertainment, including karaoke, sooner than later!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Hey Swingcat, it would be interesting if you actually met with the owners of some of these bars for a few minutes (I know, lots of miles to drive and time to spend on this) and found out exactly why they stopped doing karaoke. I know for a fact that bands are a whole lot more expensive than karaoke, being in both ends of that spectrum, but bands also keep people up dancing for hours on end...hot and thirsty dancers buy more in the way of refreshments than karaoke singers I would imagine.

I still believe it has something to do with the caliber of karaoke in that area - I know many hosts who wouldn't even unload their gear for $75, including us.

Karaoke is struggling a bit in our area also and I think it is the economy that is causing the numbers to drop a bit and then the owners start scrambling trying this and that thinking something different will work. Then they end up losing their karaoke crowd.

People tell us they can't afford to go out as much and some of the local restaurants have cut their days and hours. One of the casinos replaced karaoke with a DJ on the weekends and put karaoke on Thursdays. Same with a local restaurant close to us. But the DJ crowds aren't that great either. One casino that had a huge karaoke show went out of business entirely. At the place where we used to live the same karaoke host has been there at least 15 years but the numbers started to dwindle and now there is a band once a month. For many, Friday night is still good but Saturday has dropped drastically. (Lucky us trying to start a show on Sats.)

Many places we sent cards/flyers to have actually kept our cards but just don't want to take the plunge yet. These places fill their dance floors with pool tables and games as stated and just limit themselves in being able to succeed at karaoke. It is almost like a spiral of self-defeat when a venue wants karaoke to save it but is afraid to make a commitment to it. But finances have people afraid to make any type of investment or take a risk.

On the other hand, we volunteered our services to the Boys and Girls Club and the kids are going crazy in anticipation. The Club even says they are going to come up with a little something to pay us. So we are not giving up but using the down time to get more experience and become better known in the area. Plus we think having the kids be so enthusiastic is going to be good for morale. I don't think karaoke going out of favor is the fault of karaoke so much as it's the economy.

I think a lot of it comes from the inability of a lot of venue owners to think about the consequences of changes they make.

One venue the company I work for has, had a very successful Monday night show for almost two years. Two weeks ago, they decided to change to Wednesday nights so they could feature "Monday Night Football" .

It was explained to them that:
* they were basically starting over building a new crowd
* they would be competing with far more karoke shows on Wednesdays
* the Monday singers probably would NOT switch nights
* it would likely take about 6-8 weeks to build the crowd back up with new singers.

It was also pointed out that karaoke started out on Mondays, because football wasn't bringing in the business they wanted!

Two weeks later they decided to cancel the karaoke completely because "we aren't getting the response we'd hoped for."

Well, duh?

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Dave's not here.

I don't believe the closing of or canceling of KARAOKE shows has anything to do with illegal multi riggers !

As previoulsy mentioned :
The bad economy along with increased unemployment is making tough for everyone. And business owners panick and start to CHANGE everything ..if they had karaoke they go to bands etc. I'm a believer that a TRUE 100% KARAOKE SHOW is going to be tough to maintain in this type of economy. At least on the Weekends. People need and want choices and variety of entertainment options.
The good thing is the MORE places that cancel Karaoke it should strengthen the realluy GOOD SHOWS as singers will have no where elese to go.

If you're a KJ and have noticed a decline in crowd and singers. BE PROACTIVE and discuss with your owner before you get THE BOOT unexpectadly !!

Jam, I only mentioned this as that area is HUGELY overpopulated with multiriggers, according to Swingcat. Crappyoke never lasts long, and like I said earlier, many of these multiriggers hire anyone that can stand up to host. Plus, if they're saturating the area with poor shows, people lose interest quickly and do other things.

I would speak directly with a lot of those owners and determine exactly why they think it failed...and make suggestions. Where did all the singers go? If there were that many shows, and they at one time did "make it" financially, what happened to those singers? I believe that singers don't just stop singing. They find a place to sing. So is there one HUGE place that has all the singers from all these failed shows? Curious minds want to know.

k

ECONOMY

At first I thought the lower crowds could possible be something else besides the economy, but now I'm convinced that's what it is.

I've seen venues go out of business because of the economy, but not on the scale your seeing and not established karaoke venues. None of my KJ friends have lost their gigs , but the consensus is lower crowds.

We have a place here that does karaoke every night, two places that do band karaoke, quite a few small neighborhood bars that do it and some fancy night clubs that do once a week. All of the places I know that have done karaoke for years are still doing it. But again talking to the KJs, crowds are smaller.

My Fridays are still hoppin, but my Wed. and Saturdays are a mystery. Wednesdays on an average have been holding their own for the most part, but Saturdays are good one week horrible the next. I never know. I went home after waiting 2 hours a couple weeks ago on a Saturday because I only had 2 singers. In 6 yrs that has never happened ! Then this past Saturday I had a great crowd.

People are telling me because of money they are staying home more. What doesn't help is the bar's taxes just went up 18%, so drinks went up in price.

I don't see a karaoke recession here - I see a crowd recession.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

The $75 pirates in our area are actually doing well as the small bar owners find them to be more affordable. People are going to the bar nearest their home and not driving to find a better show. The increased stopping of anyone on the highway at night by the Sheriff has also made people start sticking to their own neighborhoods. We've got a few who come in via foot or bicycle although even the people on foot have been stopped and questioned.

Actually like you also stated with other shows closing, it will 'strengthen' a 100% karaoke show as now these people that used to go to these now closed venues are looking for karaoke. Even though our overall crowds are not where they usually are, I have noticed an increase in 'non' regular singers lately - some with the very excuse that they are looking for a new place because their no longer offers it. It's a roller coaster ride, right now the cars are at the bottom of the hill & ready to reascend the next!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I actually talked to the owner about Saturdays. I offered to do every other Saturday like we used to do when I first started there. He didn't like that idea at all. I just wanted to make sure he was still happy and let him know that I'm a team player. I wouldn't recommend people do this ! I'm really stable where I am and know when things picked up he'd have me back to full Saturdays quickly.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

In my area (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, N.C.), I'd venture that the number of KJ's has TRIPLED in the past three years. (Yes, I think many of them are pirates.)
This has led to a large number of shows available on every night of the week. This is sweet if you're a singer.
But it affects all the shows and venues as a whole. Fewer and fewer singers come to any one show. Crappyoke hosts sour their new venues (and singers) on karaoke. They get replaced by acoustic nights, bands, or sometimes even nothing.
I lost a longstanding Wednesday night show recently. I had packed them in for three years. But in the same shopping center, two other places started karaoke. My crowd took a hit when singers checked out the other places. Then within a mile, two more places opened karaoke. I took another hit.
My Wednesday night show went from avg. 35 singers to 15. It wasn't enough to sustain the show in that venue.
My other gigs are in one bar, on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Within one mile, I am now competing with five other karaoke shows each of those nights.
I see this as simple oversaturation, and coupled with the economy, it means fewer singers go to any one venue. I believe it will eventually sort itself out, as lesser shows are eliminated, but it's not the greatest situation in the world right now.
I am very concerned with the way some shows affect karaoke's reputation overall with bar owners and singers.

Heres some numbers Ive directly expereinced if they mean anything for this thread.
I deliver papers(the entertainment mag I write for here in Portland) and up until a year ago I would be delivering 7 bundles(100 per bundle) on my run around southwest area and Wilsonville, Oregon. Now Im down to only 4 bundles! Thats a 300 copy reduction, with about 20 copies or so per location so do the math!
A good chunk of those getting mags are/were Karaoke places, and a goodly number have shuttered theier doors. Others have simply dropped entertainment of all forms and hence have no use for the mag. In fact it almost every month now when I go to deliver I have to call the ED and tell her--HEY another place has closed down--scratch them off the list.


But there are always new places popping up too. But havent seen most of them getting involved with Karaoke to this point.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

I agree ....survival of the fittest.. I just hope the owners and managers don't mind waiting for the next ride .....