Karaoke Forums

I've been reading these forums for a while and I'm confused. How do you know which companies that offer downloads per song are legit. I've looked at several and it's really hard to tell. Which ones are you using and which should we stay away from?

I choose to use SBI and Karaoke Version as they are manufacturers that offer their wares via download.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

There has been discussion as to if downloads are legal to use commercially in the USA--the Sound Choice stance is that they can't get the licenseing for it or they would be doing it. Some beg to differ. But until a site selling downloads puts something up that states that commericial use in the USA is a legal use of their product, I'm staying away for now.

Are you suggesting staying away from sites that are not manufacturers?

I am saying that it is controversial as to if downloading from SBI, etc. for commercial use in the USA is legal due to different licensing laws. Also, when Chartbuster first announced they would be doing downloads, their site said it would be for home use only. Now that they are actually doing them, I can't find anything about their use--unless there is something that appears when you actually purchase one but I haven't tried that.

My position is that I don't want the manufacturers selling me something and leaving it up to me to figure out if I can use it or not--and then possibly coming after me later? I think it should be in black and white that a download is legal for commercial use in the USA before I buy it. If people have found such statements on these sites, correct me and I will reconsider.

From what I've read its like this ....... downloading karaoke songs ( mp3+g) in the USA is not legal from anybody. Format shifting from CDG to mp3+g is a GREY AREA to it's legality. Copying your CDG to another CDG for back up is another GREY AREA. Just because a MFG tells you they won't come after you does not make it LEGAL ?

The entire industry concerning downloads is CLOUDY at best.

PERSONALY .... If you can download it and get a receipt for payment .... I would do it !!!! But then again..I've been known to work in the grey

Guess if you're a Pirate, at least ya know where Ye stands.....arrrrrrr.....

Don't do it from anybody. It is legal to download from the makers of the song or those companies that are authorized.

Sound Choice has spread much disinformation on this because they have never allowed downloads of THEIR songs.

Some companies alow downloads Tricerasoft, SBI and Selectatrack are legal download sites you can use. Many others are not, but they tend to disapear after a few months.

I don't know if you are calling me a troll or why but I am truly trying to get an answer to this question, myself. I just spent quite some time on the SBI AMERICA site and can only find permission to use their karaoke tracks for personal use. When it comes to other uses it says to contact their licensing dept. for info on "getting a license for your territory." They provide licensing info for their performance tracks WITHOUT GRAPHICS for commercial use but not for their KARAOKE tracks. It has been my understanding that the graphics are the hangup in the licensing of downloads in the USA.

Again, if I am wrong and someone can find something on a site that says a company's karaoke downloads are legal for commercial use in the USA then please post it as that may help to answer this question. Otherwise we shouldn't lead people astray.

Oh--the OP didn't specify whether the downloads were for home use or to run a show and I may have wrongly presumed it was for shows from the "on the fly" title. But if the OP wants downloads strictly for home use then yes, Chartbuster and SBI have legal sites. It is using downloads for running karaoke shows that is the controversy.

Fine, I'll bite. It's a troll subject. It's been discussed THOUSANDS of times here and on other boards. It always leads to the same conclusion, flame wars and closed threads. So I'm just going to throw out relevant links, images and info.

This site is accepting advertising dollars from one of the download sites.



IANAL (I am not a lawyer) BUT SHE IS. This lady was hired by MTU hoster to do a legal analysis of the USA laws.
http://www.imaginelaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1196173.html

To date, I have not heard of a single person getting in trouble in the USA for producer sanctioned karaoke downloads. Producers currently sanctioning downloads ..

Sound Choice - Limited on venuevj.com
Chartbusters - Currently offering them in beta
SBI
Sunfly
Zoom
Forever Hits
Karaoke Monthly
Music Factory
Mundo Karaoke
ScreenPlay
Sundown Karaoke

Finally there's the K.I.A.A. They've sanctioned PC karaoke now.

If I'm coming off a bit harsh, it's a tired old subject, one that I really get annoyed with.

Sorry but this person asked a question and I tried to help answer it. And again, the controversy is with commercial use and not home use. The sites you named do indeed offer downloads but every time I look at using them for commercial use it says you need additional licensing or something to that effect. The fact that no one has gotten in trouble yet doesn't mean it is legal. Also, the KIAA has endorsed PC shows based on a 1:1 disc ratio--hasn't sanctioned download shows as far as I know. Like I keep saying, if it is legal, why can't someone produce a licensing statement from a site to that effect? I keep looking and can't find one so prove me wrong and then I can start downloading, too.

If there be one of you without sin....let thee spin the first song.....

Yes you do need additional licensing. As you do for CDGs too. It is called ASCAP/BMI/SESAC.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I was gonna say that MickeyJ, thanks for saying it for me.

The bickering over this issue was one of the reasons I stopped posting here for 5 years. Legal? Not Legal? Who cares, what do we want as an industry? What do we (as kj's) want? Personally, I'd like everyone to agree on it. I'd love it if we could all set aside our differences so we could band together to set the industry in a new, positive direction.

Instead we still bicker over the same crap. It's pointless, redundant, and goes nowhere. Leopard let me ask you something, what do you want? Do you want it to be legal?

I would like it to be legal and I would like it in writing on the sites that it is legal. So far I haven't found anything that says it is and I have read on other sites that the hangup is the graphics/commercial use thing because the laws were written before some of the technology existed so it isn't covered. Or the use of the movies in early karaoke got it classified as visual media instead of music or some such thing and no one has had the clout or money to legally challenge it and get it reversed.

When someone asks a question that directly says, "What are the legal sites?" I am not comfortable with saying that just because we all want something to be so, that it is. I am also not comfortable with saying, "Well, EVERYBODY'S doing it," in hopes that it will magically become legal. I had read the legal post you linked to some time ago in my search to clarify this thing for myself. It mentions that fair use doesn't cover downloading something that is not authorized to be distributed by download. Some of the karaoke companies are claiming they have not been able to obtain licensing for downloads for commercial use. Some can argue that they are blowing smoke. But no one has proven it to me for sure, yet.

What bothers me is some of the companies had statements on their sites that were very clear about using their music. Stingray had something that said their license was for their version of the song only but you still had to obtain permission to use the song from the original copywright holder if you wanted to use it commercially. Now it is difficult to get licensing infol Go on Chartbuster's site and search licensing and it only mentions how to use their songs to make a recording. It says nothing about their downloads. SBI AMERICA says the songs are licensed for private use and you have to email them for info on commercial.

I am starting to feel we are being taken advantage of again--the companies have put this music up for sale via download without providing info as to how it can be used--so we buy it and find out later we aren't supposed to have it in our shows--but the company still got the money for the song and we are out it's use. That is why I am being a stickler about them being up front with the licensing on their sites. That's why when someone asks, "What is legal," I felt I had to say that the topic was controversial. Can't argue with me on that, I guess?

I'm sorry you're tired and grouchy about this subject! Some of us are new to this PC Karaoke thing. Since the rules seem to continue changing, anything that's been written on the subject before is undoubtedly out of date (albeit obsolete).

I got on the KIAA website and it says that, by signing up, they can (will) audit your songbooks and can fine you $1000 to get in compliance within 15 days (after a 30 day grace period). That's pretty harsh. Especially when you don't know whether the songs you are "Downloading on the Fly" at/for your show are legal.

It seems that there needs to be a way to know if these sites are legit or not. They may not come after you if you have a receipt, but any of these sites can provide that. Are they going to go after Sunfly if you have it in your songbook, or fine you because it's there? KIAA has a long way to go in the Customer Service Dept. I wouldn't join right now just because of the way their website comes across to the people who are trying to do it the right way.

I'm even beginning to question links on this site. The Song Search lists a lot of Karaoke collections, but are they all legal? I quess I thought those that had been in this forum and in the business for a while would be the ones to ask.

I'm sorry! This just seemed like a good subject for us newbies. My mistake!

So, has anybody emailed them for their info. Or is it being left to ongoing speculation?

By the way, if I recall correctly, don't CDG disks have printed on them "For personal/private use only", or something to that effect, but their "commercial" use is covered by the venues' ASCAP/BMI licence for karaoke? If that is true, then why would the same license not cover the downloads?