Joe you haven't been reading about snow in Florida?
What I love is non-smokers going outside with their smoker friends, .
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| Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18853 |
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| Author: | birdofsong [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
In Michigan, bars are restaurants are going smoke-free in May of 2010. I'm excited from a health standpoint, but I was wondering if anyone here has gone through the transition and seen what the ban has done in terms of bar business. Have you seen bars close because of this? Business get slower? Business get busier? And what were the most successful changes bars made during this transition to keep business? Thanks. birdofsong |
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| Author: | Karen K [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Washington State has been smoke-free for several years now. Yes, from a health standpoint for us nonsmoking hosts it has been fabulous. The tribal casinos in this state still allow smoking...Lonnie's gig being one of those. Initially it was a shock - and people would trek out in the worst weather to continue to smoke. It created a bit of havoc for a heavy rotation if I had to continually check to see who was seated and who was outside - which is possible if you have a small venue but if you have a room of 200 people it can be taxing. It soon became a habit for smokers just to move en masse out in groups continually over the course of the night. Legally they have to be at least 25 feet from the ingress to the building but most places fudge on that until they get caught. Some people actually cut back on the number of cigs they were smoking because of that....combined with the weather, of course. The law changed in winter here which meant all of a sudden people had to have their coats accessible all the time. (Winter where I am means a lot of rain and months of 45 degrees, some frosty nights, some snowy nights, and some wind. Not 6 feet of snow or anything like that.) I know some places, like little corner bars, really suffered and many attempted to change the law but no go, and many of those little places ended up closing up. Many of them have built covered and protected areas for their smokers ... usually out the back door of their places...they'll put those tall heaters and lights out there to keep people coming. Even the fraternal organizations have to follow the nonsmoking laws; only the tribal places get away with it. All in all I'd say for the places that were successful to begin with, and didn't depend on people sitting all afternoon chain smoking, smokers have adapted well and it hasn't made much of a difference. Many places that were teetering anyway have fallen over the financial abyss. |
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| Author: | diafel [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
We went non smoking about 8 years ago. The hit was hard and devastating. So much so, that it is still a real struggle for bars, even 8 years later. I've seen several close up permanently, mostly due to the new law. Restaurants were hit hard at first as well, but they have recovered nicely, for the most part. People just don't spend hours upon hours in restaurants. It's the bars, where the patrons are likely to spend several hours that are hit hard. The way it is now, most people just stay home and party., rather than go out, spend far more, and be forced to smoke outside for their troubles. Much cheaper, easier and far more comfortable to stay at home. Before the law, people would come out around 9:00 or 9:30. Now, if they come out at all, they come out after 10:00, but closer to 11:00 is more likely. They also "juice up" at home first, so their expenditure is less as well. I've seen the bars go from having live entertainment (bands) every night except Sundays to cut back to Thursday- Saturday, and then Friday and Saturday only, to no bands at all. It's now rare to see a live band, much less a good one from out of town, which used to be the norm. It's definitely hit hard, but there's not much to be dome about it. I sure miss the good old days! PS: I'm a non smoker! |
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| Author: | lyquiddye [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Yep, PA went non-smoking about a year and half ago. Some places are still smoking, but my bars that are non-smoking have taken a big hit. I would say business is 30% to 40% less at bars that are non-smoking. |
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| Author: | JoeChartreuse [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
In my area - Northern NJ - the bars took a HUGE hit. So many either went out of business or sold cheap to new owners that I lost count. The nauseating part is that here in NJ, the ban is actually illegal, as our Supreme Court ruled that only places supported by public funds for public use ( Libraries, Municipal Buildings, etc...) are actually public buildings, and that just because a building opens it's doors to the public doesn't make it a public building- bars are PRIVATE property, and exempt. However, it takes a LOT of resources to fight the government, and the only ones willing to do it here were the Atlantic City casinos. You know what happened next..... Yup, they bribed the casinos- smoking is allowed there. I enjoy clean air, and non-smelly clothes, but that doesn't help the bar biz. That poor waitress that had to breathe second hand smoke is now breathing fresh air out on the street looking for work, or making lots less in the bars. ANYWAY..... If you live in a place like Florida or southern California, the effects should be minimal, because people don't have to bundle up and freeze their butts off , as opposed to the more northern states that have cold winters. This is also why they almost always do in in the spring to ease the transition... The thing is, even if ALL the smokers keep coming as often as they did, by sending them outside, the bar loses approximately 20 min of every hour of sales time- 1/3 less drinks, food, etc.... That's been my experience here. Opinions may vary.... |
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| Author: | rogerniner [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
I was ticked that Denver, where I worked karaoke for about a year, finally went Non-Smoking once I moved away. As a non-smoking karaoke host, it was ROUGH. I moved to California and found I could hit notes I never thought I had in me. Joe is right about climate, however, SoCal doesn't seem to bad with accommodating smokers, but up north on a cold night? Poor chilly smokers. |
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| Author: | timberlea [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Joe you haven't been reading about snow in Florida? What I love is non-smokers going outside with their smoker friends, .
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| Author: | TopherM [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
When the smoking ban went into effect in 2003 here in Tampa Bay, FL, the business at my bar actually went UP. My bar is one of about two dozen in town that ALLOW smoking inside, and business at all of those bars are very good, as the smoking crowd would rather go there instead of a non-smoking bar. The criteria here is that you can allow smoking indoors if your stablishment makes less than 20% of its gross sales in food. Once the smoking ban went into effect, my owner cut his menu down to just a few items (wings, chicken fingers, french fries) to take care of the legal requirement, and the smokers started coming in DROVES. The smoking ban probably doesn't HURT or HELP non-smoking restaurants/bars here in FL that much, but it has HELPED smoking bars quite a bit! |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Like said WA has been non smoking for a few years now. It seems the bars that were struggling to begin with are the ones that failed and ultimately blamed it on the smoking ban when in reality the ban just pushed it a little faster, the ones that are still going, they were doing something right to begin with and are still in business & doing fine. We are still smoking due to being tribal, however I have noticed that I actually lost customers due to the fact that we ARE still smoking oddly enough. I even on occasion see smokers in our club walk outside to smoke - even though they can do so inside. After about a year, most people have accepted the fact that if they want to smoke they go outside, many bars have created outside smoking areas, complete with covered patio areas & heating (stand up propane heaters or portable fire pits or ??), a few i've seen even set up outside mini bars outside in a fenced area with seating as well with small speakers piping the music/entertainment outside. These places are all doing fine. |
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| Author: | karaoke koyote [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Initially, there was a hit, but for the most part it made the bars BETTER. Many added decks, and a variety of enticements to make outdoors smoking a better experience for them. Quite frankly, the bars have no one to blame but themselves for the smoking ban. Poor ventilation and poorly maintained or non existent smoke free devices forced the states to make this move. As a non smoker, I applauded it... My equipment, my clothes, my hair use to smell like smoke after a night in the bar... my eye burned, and I would frequently choke up while singing. That's no longer an issue. |
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| Author: | Babs [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
I'm in Illinois and when I first heard the smoking law was going in effect here I panicked worrying about what would happen. The owner of the bar I work at 3 nights a week fought it tooth and nail any way he could. Well, it went through anyway. The funny thing is it didn't hurt business at all. We actually got more business because the bar owner was smart enough to make smokers welcome by building smoking areas. We have an extremely nice beer garden that has plexiglass walls that slide open and closed with a roof and heaters. It is a bit colder than if you are inside, but many people don't even wear coats in there. It's just as if you are in a normal bar. The bar also has a smoking room on the front porch with sliding plexiglass doors and heaters. We have many people that come to the bar just because they can drink and smoke comfortably. We had one bar in the area run a heated bus outside their bar, so smokers could go some where warm during the winter months. Bar owners got very creative the first year and the bars that tried to accommodate smokers are the ones that got all the business. Now a few years later people are used to the fact they can't smoke inside and are more tolerant of the law. Bars that struggled before are doing fine now. I'd say if your bar isn't making changes to accommodate smokers they'll probably take a hit the first year until people get accustom to the change. |
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| Author: | Karen K [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Babs, sounds like your owner was on top of it. Sadly, those renos he did to accommodate smokers are out of reach financially for some of those places that always seem to be tottering on the edge of failure. In our area the zoning people are just rabid about sticking to the rules so if your smoking area isn't 25 feet from an ingress, you face fines. It's interesting to me, as I'm not a smoker, the lengths people will go to to continue to smoke -- freezing and snowy weather, pouring down rain, and in the summer heat that curls straight hair. I don't miss it in the bars - too many years I choked my way through shows. Good owners figured out ways; clueless ones blamed the no-smoking laws for their failure. |
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| Author: | Babs [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Karen K @ Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:06 pm wrote: Babs, sounds like your owner was on top of it. Sadly, those renos he did to accommodate smokers are out of reach financially for some of those places that always seem to be tottering on the edge of failure. In our area the zoning people are just rabid about sticking to the rules so if your smoking area isn't 25 feet from an ingress, you face fines. It's interesting to me, as I'm not a smoker, the lengths people will go to to continue to smoke -- freezing and snowy weather, pouring down rain, and in the summer heat that curls straight hair. I don't miss it in the bars - too many years I choked my way through shows. Good owners figured out ways; clueless ones blamed the no-smoking laws for their failure.
Your right about the cost. The bar owner redid the beer garden 3 times to finally meet the smoking laws. 3 different roofs and 2 different floors. He probably has close to $100,000 into the whole thing including the building of the bar itself. There was nothing back there when he started. |
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| Author: | JoeChartreuse [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
timberlea @ Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:12 am wrote: Joe you haven't been reading about snow in Florida?
What I love is non-smokers going outside with their smoker friends, .Don't have to read about it. My mom lives just outside Daytona, and has been, um, somewaht vocal about it.....  
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| Author: | diafel [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
In our area, smoking rooms are illegal, since they generally can't be licensed as part of the floor space. In other words, you can't take your drink out there. Even if you could, the servers are not allowed to enter that space due to the possible harm from secondhand smoke. Even if the floorspace was licensed, it STILL couldn't be done here legally, since our liquor laws state that the bartender and / or server must have full VIEW and ACCESS to other areas at all times. The "view" part would preclude many such rooms, but even ones made of plexi-glass would get ruled out, due to the access issue since legally, servers and bartenders are not allowed to access areas where there is smoking. They definitely have it sealed air tight up here. BTW, these are Worker's Compensation Board rules, not municipal ones. |
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| Author: | atxklown [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
No problem in Austin. Just a bit hard when they got to stand out in the patio to smoke, and the surrounding counties still smoke, I notice a big difference when I go to smoke/smokefree venues. |
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| Author: | lordairgtar [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Y'all can come up to Wisconsin and smoke yer brains out...at least until June or July when it changes. The bar owners here are crying the blues about it and the smokers are whining about it too. |
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| Author: | Skid Rowe [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
Here in NC, we turned smoke free on Jan.2 this year. Only about two weeks ago. So far business is still good at my place and many other clubs as well. The smokers grumbled at first, but have come to accept it. Like most bars/clubs we have a smoking area just outside. |
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| Author: | ripman8 [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
http://www.qctimes.com/news/local/artic ... 03286.html Brian now has a smoking bar in Iowa. Maybe the only one of it's kind. I played there in November. He owned the restaurant next to his bar. He closed it down. He leased it out (to a friend, or relative, can't remember) and the person allows Brian to bring in bands, djs, karaoke hosts and since it is private, people can smoke in there. It is connected to the bar so there is a door to walk over and get a beer or drink. His ventilation is so good that it was a waste of time for me to bring my fog machine! It's a small bar but he is the guy in Iowa that has fought the new law tooth and nail. He's being doing this new set up for months and I guess his lawyer said it was a brilliant idea. From my perspective, yes the bars have lost business and funny to watch smokers head out in droves when an unpopular song comes on. |
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| Author: | birdofsong [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smoke-Free Venues--Has anyone seen a difference in business when their state banned smoking in public venues? |
It won't work in Michigan. The law is against smoking in any workplace (except a truck or casino). No getting around that, even with a private club. birdofsong |
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