Karaoke Forums

FACTS ABOUT PRODUCT AVAILABILITY:
1. They have produced no new products in how long now?

2. There are retailers who can no longer get and no longer have any SC products in their inventory

3. Those who do have SC left in stock have a very limited selection

4. There are discs I am looking for and have been unable to find anywhere, including the SC website. And when you do a search for them they don’t even come up on their websiter.

THEORIES BASED UPON THE PRECEDING:
1. Sound Choice no longer plans to produce CD+G discs
2. If that is true, then Sound Choice has no vested interest at this point in discouraging piracy of their tracks
3. Then there must be some other motive for Sound Choice’s efforts to identify and sue people using their material illegally


POSSIBLE FACTS/THEORIES ABOUT THE SOUND CHOICE TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT SUITS:
1. Generally speaking, trademark infringement cases are very difficult for the plaintiffs to prove/win.
2. If Sound Choice were successful in winning, the awards would probably drive most defendants into bankruptcy, making those defendants judgment proof and yielding Sound Choice little while costing them much in terms of lawyers and etc!
3. The costs to pursue so many claims in court would be prohibitive to Sound Choice, particularly if they don’t win or can’t collect.
4. It has been stated by one of the defendants that Sound Choice is offering about 350 discs @ $6500 for those who settle with them. If that is true, that doesn’t seem like much of deterrent against piracy in the future! Furthermore, that figure is a far cry from what Sound Choice would be due if they proved their case in court. So, even If they have a solid basis for a trademark infringement case, does it appear like Sound Choice really wants to go to court or does it seem like they would rather take the money and run?


POSSIBLE CONCLUSIONS:
1. Sound Choice doesn’t think that going to trial is a winning strategy, even if they win some of their suits.
2. And their accompanying strategies strengthen the assumption made in the preceding number 1.
3. Sound Choice current objectives do not include stopping piracy.
4. Sound Choice will be happy to sell off its remaining inventory through quick bulk sales to those who they are accusing of infringing on their trademarks
5. Those being accused, even if innocent, would make out better taking the SC settlement than going to court. If nothing else, it would be both cheaper to settle and settling will provide the accused with karaoke tracks that would not be obtained no matter how much the accused spends if they choose to go to trial
5. Sound Choice doesn’t really want to go to court either!


What do you think?

According to sources outside of this forum Sound Choice is in the process of introducing a new product line, timeline seems to indicate a month or so away from doing so. Computer KJ's are going to love it.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I don't think you have your facts right, but based on what you wrote...

If innocent, why would you be willing to spend $6500 for 350 discs to add to your library? Chances are, you already have most of these songs in your library already (some on SC, some on other manufacturers). It's not coming out cheaper for you to settle if you're innocent.

WHy would they have no vested interest in piracy of their tracks? If they are not producing new discs primarily due to piracy, and they are doing something to try and recoup their losses from the pirates in question, then that would be a vest interest. I doubt they are going to stop making music altogether, cdg's may be done - speculation, but I think once they sort out the lawsuits, get the pirates out of the equation, the digital age for them will emerge with some sort of tracking system or something. Again, only speculation.
If I were them, I wouldn't be making anymore product either if no one is buying it, but putting it on hard drives & sharing it or selling it without any physical discs with it.

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Most of what I posted should, clearly, be taken as theoretical. I wondered if it might be cheaper to settle, even if innocent, because:

1) It will cost a lot more to go to court than $6500 if you bring a lawyer with you, and most people should probably do that just to make sure they fully understand the charges and their likelihood of winning.
2) What if there are some good tracks among some that you already own?
3) SC said they would accept payment plans
4) How many of those discs might be worth more after SC is gone and they are no longer available?

Let me raise one question when it comes to the "likelihood of success" that I mentioned above. SC audit program requires that you not only possess the discs (in question) but that you have a receipt to prove your purchased it. Is that a standard required by statute, or any interpretation of statute.

I dunno about too much of this, just thinking out loud?

1. Well, if SC's only current involvement with karaoke tracks is to sue pirates and to sell off their remaining inventory of discs, and SC is NOT currently selling and does NOT intend to sell their tracks IN ANY OTHER FORMAT, how much will they really benefit by pursuing a handful of people who have pirated their tracks? But of course, the sell-off of their inventory will benefit from selling 350 discs to any accused who accepts the SC settlement!

2. If SC is planning to stay in business and to use another method of delivering their tracks to the public other than discs, how will their current efforts with a few suspected pirates help in preventing future piracy?
a. Do you prevent future pirating by using a LOW PROFILE approach that has as its objective the obtainment of a settlement with the accused pirates? And I would guess that it is because of SC LOW PROFILE approach, that very few of the commercial pirates have any idea of what SC is doing!
b. Or is the goal of fighting piracy better served getting a landmark case decided in your favor in court which should result in a massive amount of media coverage?
c. Do you prevent future pirating by charging the current pirates $6500 as a "punishment" for stealing four and five times that much in value while at the same time the pirates made a profit that far exceeds the $6500 SC is asking of them?
d. If $6500 is punishment enough for the pirate at hand, is it still punishment enough after SC gives the offender 350 tracks in "return" for the $6500 punishment that SC is purported to be asking for?

3. It seems to me in regard to preventing future piracy that the consequences offered by SC is like sending a kid to his room, where he has a computer, TV, Ipod, and..........., and then asking him to "think about what he has done" after he was caught using drugs! How effective would that be?

It would probably require 500 settlements, an average of 10 settlements per state, for this strategy to make real economic sense to me. So the more accusations they make the more likely they will reach 500.

That number of settlements would generate over $3,000,000 of cash flow into their coffers to help fund whatever new endeavors they may have in mind. They really don't have that much expense in filing their lawsuits and even less in regard to sending out their settlement letters Not great, but not bad.

Again, I dunno; I am just wondering? Food for thought!

I have given up on SC and switched to other brands for my karaoke.

It sucks they lost money and such but it happens. Deal with it. Guess they need to figure something out.

If they were smart they would have their own hosting program that their karaoke works on and that is all. But also plays mp3+g.

They have stated that they plan on releasing their library in MP3+G format in the next 30 days. If true, this is a wise move for them. Now they must pay printing, pressing and shipping charges on physical inventory that may or may not sell. More obscure discs don't get made at all and are unavailable due to the quantities needed to manufacture to make a profit.

Moving to electronic delivery eliminates ALL of these costs and allows them to release any track they have ever produced that they still hold the rights to.

If it actually happens, it will be greatly beneficial to both Sound Choice AND us.

Bazza said:



The operative phrase here is: "that they still hold the rights to."

There are NO provisions in the KIAA to ensure that manufacturers aren't distributing tracks that are either unlicensed or licensing has expired for one or more reasons. Nor are there any safeguards, checks & balances or "punishments" for doing so. The only statement a manufacturer has to make is basically an: "I promise to play nice."

While in the meantime, the KIAA wants to be able to show up at anytime and conduct "surprise audits" on KJ's with unspecified punishments... In order for a KJ to be a member of this one-sided-society, you must be willing to accept this kind of treatment and sign away your rights.

What a crock.

It sure sounds like it, Mr Staley!!???

If that's the case, they would still have a stake in fighting piracy, but I am still left with the question of how helpful their current strategy will be.

Oh, and if SC offers downloads I hope that they provide the legit KJ's with a way of proving what we have purchased via downloads! There are a "ton" of SC tracks I would like to have but wouldn't want to buy the entire discs that they are on in order to obtain them.

The plan is basically what Pop Hits did with their stuff. On cd or dvd disc.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

What stake? They would be pirating as well and with the blessings of the KIAA. I wonder just how much trademark protection they would be entitled to on a track that that is produced as a willful copyright violation.

If the KIAA wants to put things on a somewhat level playing field, they should then require ALL manufacturers to document the disc with the date licensed and the expiration date as well as register the QUANTITY for each track with KIAA before any sales begin.

The the KIAA could conduct "surprise audits" on manufacturers to see if they are selling unlicensed or improperly licensed tracks by simply purchasing one from a supplier at any time.

This will never happen Chip..

The sad news is, Mfgs over press CD+G disks all the time..

Not exactly news, eh?

Actually, it was electronic delivery and the MP3 format that CAUSED the tremendous upswing in piracy. Anything can be hacked. Everyone with a PC has access, and all the equipment to copy load and store.

There are no costs, such as blank hard media, bulk recording equipment, distribution networks, or anything else to hinder piracy. This has already been proven- just look around.

A rumor that I've heard is that SC will be producing MP3 on discs, to facilitate loading into PCs......sigh......, not that I believe you will see it soon. Of course, these MP3s will again be pirated, and SC will have more names to add to their list of possible sources of income.

Oh yes, and the reason for disappearing SC track is that these tracks were never properly licensed.

They are using "Trademark Infringement" as a way to generate income - apparently their new business plan. This ISN'T about PIRACY, though piracy is ia part of it. They are NOT looking to go to court. If they did so, the fact that they attached their trademark to many tracks over the years without licensing or permission would be brought up. Not only would this invalidate their case, but would open them up to suits from those who own the rights to the music.

They are trying to recoup, but don't mistake it for a fight against piracy. That's not their concern.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

jdmeister said:


Of course it will never happen this has nothing to do with doing what is right and/or at least fair, it's only about moolah...

I am with you, though, C. Staley. I think the manufacturers, knowing that both home users and karaoke hosts purchase their products, should state up front the legal uses of their product. Instead, they operate in a grey area in order to sell tracks and then possibly may come after hosts later for using what they thought was bought in good faith.

I think the problem with soundchoice is the US laws and problems with making a legal karaoke product means that most of the cost of producing and selling a karaoke disk is legal and royalties. The result is that the company that makes legal karaoke will begin to be domininated by lawyers and bookeepers not musicians. That is where the knowledge is needed for running a company most effectively (from the profit point of view) because that is where the costs are.

Unfortunately with a company balance sheet (and Board of dirrectors) dominated by legal/royalty issues dealing with making of the product, then they may begin to use their knowledge for other aspects of the business such as piracy.

What we have is a company that was forced to look at the market as a leagal environment. They have chosen to deal with the problem of piracy using thier training which is dominated by a legal and bookeeping viewpoint. Certainly it is a lot easier to make money by suing a pirate (many are so obvious) than actually making a product.

And some of us are starting to wonder if that endeavor isn't the primary and perhaps the only profit center for Sound Choice these days?

Not much to wonder about- Kurt Slep has pretty much stated that it is...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Look, this gray area with karaoke is killing the whole thing. I know from my own area just how bad it is... but hey, trying to build a song library at .99 a song is just stupid.

Buying a disc full of songs that you DON"T NEED to get two or three good ones is also stupid.

Paying royalties on songs that a lot of people don't sing is stupid.

pressing discs, and printing labels for discs that don't sell is stupid.

bottom line, there has been a lot of stupidity in the karaoke industry, and this situation is a result of that.

I've been fortunate and purchased a lot of discs second hand (and in some cases third hand), but a lot of folks don't live a large city where you can find these deals if you're patient. I look forward to whatever SC does... I love them... but please lets do something smart for once. Please!

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!