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How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
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Author:  vtrod [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
I play quite regularly at a bar that used to be the dumps.

After I moved in, I made a few changes to the show and it is now extremely popular with the younger crowd- usually packed to capacity on the nights I am running the show (3 weekends a month). Problem is they never want to leave because they are having so much of a good time.

Now because the customers are spending money, the owners at the bar expect me to keep the show going for an additional 15 minutes - 30 minutes after the agreed time at no extra charge.

Call me money minded, but I do not think it is fair for them to be getting my services for free even if it is for just a minimal amount of time.

Do you recommend I suck it up and just play the additional time FOC or should I say something about it?

Your thoughts?
Author:  diafel [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
I would definitely say something. NO WAY am I going to "suck it up" and play for free!
Does anyone else in any other industry work for free?
Do you think the doctor, lawyer, construction worker, etc, etc, would work for free?
Generally not!
The reason the owner wants you to keep going is because he's putting money in his pocket and wants to keep doing so.
Off your back!
Since he's making money for YOUR work, I would ask him to pay for it.
What do you charge per night for your 3 hour show?
For example's sake, let's say it's $300. That works out to $100 per hour, which works out to $25 per 15 minutes. If he wants you to stay another 15 minutes, then ask for another $25. For 30 minutes, it's $50, and so on.
Another option would be to include so many drinks for free for playing over. For instance, to stay the extra half hour, you want 5 $5.00 drinks for free for the night.
This is what I negotiated with my owner when he wanted me to start playing later. It works for him because what I get for free, $25 retail worth of drinks, only costs him something like $6 or $7 wholesale.
Bar owners will always try to get something for nothing. Don't play into it.
Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
To DIAFEL you listen!! Nothing more need be said!!

Does your show really only play early or does it go all the way to closing time--1 or 2 in morning? Why doesent he have you there until closing time? If he really wants to make money he needs you there until closing.
Author:  vtrod [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
Their permit only allows them to stay open until 11.00, BUT this is rather flexible as the authorities tend to look the other way so long as there isn't any trouble.
Author:  johnreynolds [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
SwingcatKurt @ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:02 pm wrote:
To DIAFEL you listen!! Nothing more need be said!!.
:roll: :roll:

I agree with Diafel that you should be getting paid for your overtime work, but i would BE CAREFUL if you choose alcoholic drinks as compensation for your time.

Would these ( likely alcoholic) 5 drinks be given away?? TO WHOM??? To customers who might drink and drive and possibly kill someone then blame it on the kj or owner?

Would the KJ HIMSELF drink these 5 (likely alcoholic) drinks then ATTEMPT to drive home safely and possibly kill or injure someone seriously?

DRUNK DRIVERS ARE STILL A MAJOR PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY! Personally i have lost 2 friends to drunk drivers and one high school friend killed a new mother while he was intoxicated. All these families still grieve and it never really ends...

-sounds like a better idea would be to ask for extra money, FOOD, or even a gift certificate from this place rather than possibly risking your life, someone elses, and your job and reputation among the community for doing something as stupid as drinking and driving. -oh IMHO :yes: :yes:
Author:  tovmod [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
If it were me, and if no more than an extra 15 minutes of my time were needed occasionally, and if those 15 minutes allowed me to complete the rotation, I would "suck it up"

Other than that... probably not!

If the bar is making EXTRA money from my efforts I would like to make EXTRA money from my efforts. Seems fair?
Author:  BigJer [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
I think it depends on how good a gig it is.

If you're making top dollar, generally getting fair treatment and building a reputation in the area and there's a decent chance of getting that 4th night because people can't get enough of your show then I'd eat 15 minutes to maintain a good relationship with the bar.

On the other hand if they aren't treating you so well and paying you decent then losing the gig wouldn't be such a biggie so go ahead and play hardball. Just be prepared for them to start shopping for another KJ.
Author:  diafel [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
johnreynolds @ Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:05 pm wrote:

Would the KJ HIMSELF drink these 5 (likely alcoholic) drinks then ATTEMPT to drive home safely and possibly kill or injure someone seriously?

For the record, my 5 drinks are consumed by me in a 5 hour (on average) night, less than a block away from my home. It was a suggestion to solve a problem, not a commandment, and I certainly meant no harm by it, nor did I suggest or condone drinking and driving.
Use your noggins, people!
Caveat Emptor.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
I think part of the problem is yours... You get paid to Xtime --make your announcement early that you are not taking any more requests and your end time iS X and SHUT DOWN ON TIME.

If you take it upon yourself to continue to play because everyone is HAVING FUN ..you have no one to blame but yourself.

Now flip side is most KJ's will play 10-15 mins over to finish a rotation or get one or 2 more songs in without ever thinking about getting paid. :D :D
Author:  Alex [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
BigJer @ Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:56 am wrote:
I think it depends on how good a gig it is.

If you're making top dollar, generally getting fair treatment and building a reputation in the area and there's a decent chance of getting that 4th night because people can't get enough of your show then I'd eat 15 minutes to maintain a good relationship with the bar.

On the other hand if they aren't treating you so well and paying you decent then losing the gig wouldn't be such a biggie so go ahead and play hardball. Just be prepared for them to start shopping for another KJ.
I agree with this.
IF we're talking about 15-30 minutes, I usually see it as a make up for other, slower nights. We all have them, we're still getting paid. So if it is an occasional staying longer, I just eat it.
IF we're talking about staying an hour or more and/or staying longer on a regular base, I would just ask the owner if he wants to add an hour to the show and get compensated for it of course. If the owner doesn't want to go there, offer the per 15 minute overtime compensation, if it gets busy and wants you to stay.

I hope I make sense here...
Author:  TopherM [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
I used to have this exact problem. Instead of trying to get the money from my tight azz owner when I ran long, I would get it as "tips" from the patrons.

First, you have to be FIRM with the patrons and tell them that you only get paid until 10:00.

Then, you have to have an understanding with your owner that you will ONLY work the extra time if the patrons pay you to stay.

What I would then do, is have the patrons that wanted to sing AFTER my cut off time to take up a collection. I would usually get $20-30 for an extra 30-45 minutes work after the cut off.

This also makes you flexable to stop at 10:00 on nights when you have other things to do.

As long as everyone is clear of these rules, everyone gets what they want!!
Author:  Babs [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
My gig is from 9 - 2 am. The bar closes at 3am. I don't work a minute passed the time I'm paid. I have to get up for work in the morning and it just isn't worth it to me to stay and not get paid. I've never worked a job where you were expected to work overtime for free.

I get 25$ for a half hour and $50 for an hour. This happened over time because the crowd wouldn't want me to leave and when I left, they did too. The owner pays me extra regularly now to stay because he makes money. he is making more money - why shouldn't you.

The crowd always wants more more more. You just have to learn to say no. Sometimes the crowd will even pay you to stay if the owner doesn't. It's tough at first if your crowd is used to you staying, but they'll get used to it. If the patrons say something to you, direct them to the owner. It's not your fault he isn't willing to pay you to work.
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
Usually at my regular place, if the KJ stays longer, it takes the OK of the head bartender (and the owner if he's present), and the crowd tips the KJ for her extra time. (which, usually amounts to more than what the owner would pay her anyhow)

One of us who are in a mood to stay just announce to everyone else "It's over at 1:00, if you guys want to stay longer, get her some tips for her overtime"... it works every time, and everyone is happy that way:)

She stays atleast another rotation, usually until 2 am.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
The "tip" thing takes the resposibility away from the owner/manager.

I see som potential problems...#1 the singer who throws in his money and wants to sing one extra song than the rotations allows.

#2 - If sometihng happens , you are there on your own accord and the bar may not be responsible for WHATEVER it is that happened.
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
If she stays... she allows atleast one more round each. She doesn't favor whomever gives the biggest tip. Some give a couple bucks, some give $20, but she gets a nice little extra $$ for staying. And lots of the people who tip... aren't even singing, they just want to hang out and drink longer, and have fun.

I think this guy would stand behind her if "something happened" and she wasn't within "normal time". He's even paid her to stay late on numerous occasions, when it's busy and he's there. But when we want to stay, she's ready to pack up but persuadable, and the owner doesn't care one way or the other... if we tip her and get another hour, then she's happy and so are we... and of course the bar makes more money, so he's happy too.

(we're small town. but, bars are different, people are different.. that's not to say this sutuation would work everywhere... it just does for us)
Author:  hamsamich [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
I've paid KJ's 3 times to stay over about 30 minutes extra as a crowd member in a rotation. Doesn't bother me, I feel for them. I am a sympathizer though! But that was what I saw, people wanting the show to go on so the KJ asked for a few bucks to extend. 20 bucks twice. 40 bucks at a bigger show.....no one flinched. And I was next up with one more guaranteed song 2 out of the 3 times..... :twisted:
Author:  Karen K [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
Funny, as a host, until you start talking tips -- there are people who don't understand why we won't just stay longer and NOT GET PAID for it! A few times I've stayed late but not often. I have said to people, "So, on Friday afternoon your boss comes to you and says he thinks you should stay an extra 30 minutes and work but he isn't going to pay you." Mmmhhh.....
Author:  DJMojo [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
Overtime is something I discuss with management BEFORE I ever take the gig.

Mojo
Author:  DangerousDanKaraoke [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
DJMojo @ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:29 am wrote:
Overtime is something I discuss with management BEFORE I ever take the gig.

Well, what's done is done. So what to do NOW?

Go talk with the owner during the day when he's in. Let him know how happy you are that your show has taken off and thrilled that people are having so much fun, they don't want to leave at 10 when your contracted time ends.

"Since it's been happening so often, would you like me to regularly stay until 10:30? Right now I'm hanging around on my own time as a favor so that everyone can sing, but I can't continue to do that. The additional half hour would be (your 3 hour rate divided by 6). If not, what I can do is cut off requests once the 3 hours are full and then not take anymore signups. What would you like to do?" Then shut up and let him talk.

Can't blame the owner as it was never brought up to him. Bar owners will typically slide by if they can. Now the owner will understand you're happy to stay as long as you get paid. No additional pay? You end at 10 pm and he misses ringing the register for another half hour. You might find that he's not selling that many drinks in that half hour, people are just staying and drinking what they already have.

You'll never know unless you talk to him. Good luck!
Author:  birdofsong [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How do you tell your employer that you are only playing from 7.00 - 10.00 and no more unless he pays extra?
DangerousDanKaraoke @ Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:10 am wrote:
DJMojo @ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:29 am wrote:
Overtime is something I discuss with management BEFORE I ever take the gig.

Well, what's done is done. So what to do NOW?

Go talk with the owner during the day when he's in. Let him know how happy you are that your show has taken off and thrilled that people are having so much fun, they don't want to leave at 10 when your contracted time ends.

"Since it's been happening so often, would you like me to regularly stay until 10:30? Right now I'm hanging around on my own time as a favor so that everyone can sing, but I can't continue to do that. The additional half hour would be (your 3 hour rate divided by 6). If not, what I can do is cut off requests once the 3 hours are full and then not take anymore signups. What would you like to do?" Then shut up and let him talk.

Can't blame the owner as it was never brought up to him. Bar owners will typically slide by if they can. Now the owner will understand you're happy to stay as long as you get paid. No additional pay? You end at 10 pm and he misses ringing the register for another half hour. You might find that he's not selling that many drinks in that half hour, people are just staying and drinking what they already have.

You'll never know unless you talk to him. Good luck!


Excellent advice, and a very diplomatic way of approaching the owner.

Kudos.

birdofsong
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