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The ideal set-up challenge.
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Author:  mrscott [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  The ideal set-up challenge.
Was thinking tonight on my way to my show how heavy my stuff is. And it got me to thinking about how I could make life simpler and more efficient. Here's the question for all the "techies" with good knowledge and experience. If YOU were to build a system from top to bottom, what equipment would you use? Here's the criteria:

Very portable, and flexible. Can fill small rooms (50 people or so) up to larger halls (seating maybe up to a 1000)

Light weight. Consider that maybe a small woman or old man (me) would be setting up by them self.

Easy to set up, under 15 minutes set up max, including typical carry-in time.

Terrific sound with "earth-shaking" lows, and crisp, clear highs. Power to spare, even in large rooms.

Be realistic on pricing, but don't hesitate either on cost.

OK, now you have the ideal set up criteria for a kick-butt sound system. Lets start with mixer.

Mixer: powered? digital maybe?

Amps: or powered subs with satellite speakers?

Main speakers: same question, powered or passive

Monitor:

Effects, crossovers, compressor/gate, filters, power conditioners, etc.

Cables and/or snakes:

mics: wired? wireless or combination? cables? remember ease of set up

racks, stands, tv screens, all the extras.

So, if you could build it, what would you do? I know there will be differences of opinions,,,,,,remember folks, I am only asking "opnions". So don't get mean or anything. hehe

Thanks in advance, Scott
Author:  Lonman [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
Too hard to answer.
I would say for that criteria, my rack would be scaled down to a dbx 1046 quad compressor for mics, a dbx Driverack PA (or 260 depending on needs) and a couple effects processors. The Driverack would replace my crossover, BBE, dual 31 band eq, 1066 compresso - currently taking up 5 spaces down to 1. The 1046 would replace my 2 Symetrix 501's & 266XL - currently taking 3 spaces down to 1. So right there 8 spaces could be condensed to 2 rack spaces and do the job of everything plus. The 2 effects processors would remain the same - so I could logistically go from a 10 space processor rack to a 4 space rack.
Amp rack would be lighter with the newer amps, using 6 spaces.
Amps, i'd still want to triamp my system as I do now, but would look for a lower weight, I am partial to Carvin amps & the new DCM line works well and lighter than what I currently have, otherwise I would probably look at the QSC PLX or Crown XTi series for amps.
Speakers - this I wouldn't sacrifice, if they are heavy, then so be it. Lighter speakers tend to sound boxy and not very full or lacking/harsh in lows/highs. If I went powered, would stay with the QSC series - which would eliminate the need for amps altogether - dropping the amp rack entirely.
Mixer i'd still opt for a 12-16 channel, I use a 16 now & all channels are full and get used.
Probably a powered floor monitor with a dbx 131 eq - adding 1 more space to my 4 rack unit.
Singer viewing monitor would most likely be a flat screen of some kind.
Author:  lyquiddye [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
if I had the cash I would buy:

One Dynacord power sub.

http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/1/1 ... ub315.html

One slave sub.

http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/1/1/1/5_sub115.html

2 tops

http://www.dynacord.com/en/products/1/1/1/3_d12-3.html


You would need no crossover, system eq, compressor or bbe. The system sounds incredible.

Speaker Option 2 would be 2 QSC K-12 and 2 KSubs.

I really like the EV ZX5A but I'm not happy with any of the EV matching subs right now.

I'd still buy a drive rack
http://www.pssl.com/DBX-DRIVERACK-PA-PL ... rol-System

I'd use peavey's new mixer. it's sweet it has auto mix on channel 1 - 4.
http://www.pssl.com/Peavey-S-14-14-Ch-S ... ries-Mixer

And mics would be either EV or Shure

http://www.pssl.com/EV-RE2410-Handheld- ... -RE410-Mic

I love the old midiverb 4 so I would have 2 of them.

I use this case:

http://www.pssl.com/SKB-Mini-Gig-Rig-Ca ... Bottom-Ra-



Nice and compact: 1 Rack Mixer on top, Furman, Effect, Effect, Mic, Mic, Drive Rack on Bottom.

Most night would be 2 speakers and a sub, big nights 2 subs and 2 speakers.

Put your sound card and hard drive in the rack, you could be set up in 5 minutes.

http://www.pssl.com/Shure-SLX24SM58-Han ... -WSm58-Mic
Author:  hamsamich [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
http://www.1stopkaraoke.com/detail/index.cfm?nPID=61533

Yorkville LS200P Powered Subwoofer


is this any good? sure it's not as good as the dynacord, but I wonder how it sounds? very portable!

I see dynacord has a couple 12" subs as well. wonder how they would stack up against lesser 18" subs?
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
mrscott @ Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:00 am wrote:
Was thinking tonight on my way to my show how heavy my stuff is. And it got me to thinking about how I could make life simpler and more efficient. Here's the question for all the "techies" with good knowledge and experience. If YOU were to build a system from top to bottom, what equipment would you use? Here's the criteria:

Honestly, Scott, the easiest thing to do is get a gig where you can leave your stuff there all the time, or that has acceptable in-house PA.

There are limits to how much bass you can make from small, light-weight speakers; but I feel like the JBL SRX series are a very good combination of high output, low frequency extension (for DJ playback), weight/size, and price.

The place where I want to make my rig easier to handle is the top speakers; the toughest part of the job for me is getting them in the air.

I also want lighter amps, but for me, that pretty much means a very expensive upgrade to PL380 or I-TECH 8000; or dividing my amps into two separate racks and using more floor space.
Author:  mrscott [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
My current system has been terrific for sound, but the weight is killing me slowly. It takes me about 30-40 minutes to set up from beginning to end, and about 35 to tear down and load. Not horrible by any means, but I would like to cut that time in half.

But I don't want to sacrifice anything in the process, good sound, flexibility, etc. So that is why I asked the question. I was talking to a guy (yeah, a salesman, grrr) about upgrading my current amps from the EP2500's to the new Carvin DCM3800, for two reasons, weight and head room. The cost of 3 amps would be around $2300 or so. His alternative solution was to spend that amount of money on an entire new sound system, using powered subs with small 12" satellite speakers. His thoughts on the mixing board and console was something else altogether. But I did get where he was trying to do, a small set up weighing only about 30 pounds. It was food for thought.

Now the equipment he was trying to "sell" me, I wasn't quite sure of, but the concept got me to thinking about this whole scenario. If we had money to spend on what we actually wanted, and not just what we could afford, what would we buy and how would we set it up.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
I just read a pretty positive review by a friend who just used the DCM3800L. I believe he is posting more details after Monday. Here is the link to his thread: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.p ... 893/23647/
Author:  letitrip [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
Hmm well I don't have much time, but here's a few thoughts I have.

For the console if I could have my wish, it'd be a Yamaha LS9 digital desk. That right there allows me to eliminate an entire rack of equipment because now the comps, gates, limiters, EQ's and effects are all built into my console (this is what I've already achieved with my O1V but the LS9 would be a much better but still portable answer).

For PA, if money were no object, I'd go with the Martin sub-compact line array and a pair of single 18 Martin subs. Maybe carry additional subs for larger gigs and have additional boxes to add to the array (small rig would be just 3) in larger places.

All my mics would be UHF-R from Shure with Beta 58 cartridges.

I could go on, but I've gotta run.
Author:  lyquiddye [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
letitrip @ Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:52 am wrote:
Hmm well I don't have much time, but here's a few thoughts I have.

For the console if I could have my wish, it'd be a Yamaha LS9 digital desk. That right there allows me to eliminate an entire rack of equipment because now the comps, gates, limiters, EQ's and effects are all built into my console (this is what I've already achieved with my O1V but the LS9 would be a much better but still portable answer).

For PA, if money were no object, I'd go with the Martin sub-compact line array and a pair of single 18 Martin subs. Maybe carry additional subs for larger gigs and have additional boxes to add to the array (small rig would be just 3) in larger places.

All my mics would be UHF-R from Shure with Beta 58 cartridges.

I could go on, but I've gotta run.



I think you missed the point on cutting down on weight.
Author:  letitrip [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
lyquiddye @ Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:24 am wrote:
letitrip @ Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:52 am wrote:
Hmm well I don't have much time, but here's a few thoughts I have.

For the console if I could have my wish, it'd be a Yamaha LS9 digital desk. That right there allows me to eliminate an entire rack of equipment because now the comps, gates, limiters, EQ's and effects are all built into my console (this is what I've already achieved with my O1V but the LS9 would be a much better but still portable answer).

For PA, if money were no object, I'd go with the Martin sub-compact line array and a pair of single 18 Martin subs. Maybe carry additional subs for larger gigs and have additional boxes to add to the array (small rig would be just 3) in larger places.

All my mics would be UHF-R from Shure with Beta 58 cartridges.

I could go on, but I've gotta run.


I think you missed the point on cutting down on weight.


Oh Really? How is that exactly? I proposed a Yamaha LS9 console which would replace a console and rack full of equipment that could weigh in upwards of 200 pounds when all is said and done with a console that does it all and weighs in at 26 pounds (for the 16 channel model). If that isn't an effective plan for having all the bells and whistles of a big rig while still being light and portable, I don't know what is.

This exact concept is exactly why I bought my O1V. I replaced a 300lb equipment rack with a console, road case and dog house that combined weigh 80lbs. Not to mention the console itself sounds far better than the Mackie I was using previously.

The Martin Mini-Line Array cabinets weigh less than most 15" 2-way cabinets. They stack on top of just about anything and are exceedingly portable.

The 18" Subs that mentioned are about the only really heavy item but if you want earth rumbling bass as was part of the original challenge, then there is no substitute for an 18 or larger sub. Sub cabinets can be moved easily with a hand truck and setup a lot faster than using multiple smaller cabs.
Author:  mrscott [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
Tony, I agree with what you are doing. Yes, it's a lot lighter than would be for a rack "full" of gear. The speakers really don't lose any weight, , but the sound would be awesome.

My thoughts here would be the "perfect" rig. Is there such a critter? really? I'm just putting this out there for some thoughts. I don't want anybody bickering or making comments that seem rude. Folks, all I am asking is opinions. I will take all the input and consider what is best in MY opinion for my needs.

Thanks again people
Author:  Karen K [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
We use powered speakers (SM350s for small rooms, SM450s when we need bigger sound, and they do put out more than sound) and a powered Mackie 15" sub. We'll be replacing our current DFX12 board with the new one that's coming out soon by Mackie that has built-in digital effects (certainly more than enough of a selection for karaoke) and a midsweep on the vocals. It's a 12 channel. I use Hoster and we use a PC shuttle for that so we have to carry a monitor (nice flat screen), keyboard and mouse. I will go lappy next time.

Our set-up time is minimal and I (old lady) can carry it all and set it up myself, though hooking up everything takes me a little time since I don't do it all the time, hubby does). Sub is a little on the heavy side but I am able to counterbalance with my weight and put it into the Windstar. I use a DJ rack with the board in it and an extra CD/DVD player. I also carry a laptop with bumper music on it, and now carry all the music for that on thumb drives.

Our setup is compact and footprint is small. I won't say it is light but it is certainly lighter than the racks we used to use when we had to carry amps and crossovers. Basically 2 speakers, one sub, a crate with the computer in it, one full speaker stand and one that goes into the sub. I much prefer powered to passive, and even for DJing in large facilities we are able to match the equipment to the room easily.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
Mr. Scott

That criteria would be a challenge !!!! :D

I think to produce earth shaking lows -- You'll need either HEAVY SPEAKERS or SUBS which in any case does not reduce your rig. The word you are missing is COMPROMISE. What system is PORTABLE - NOT TOO HEAVY - easy to set up with the least amount of compromise on sound and is suitable for a karaoke show and not Carnegie Hall in terms of COST.

From what I've read the QSC K series powered speakers are LIGHT and awesome sounding with plenty of punch - match that with 1 or 2 QSC K subs and you have a great sounding lighter system. Now you can add yoru mixer and DRIVERACK PROCESSOR and your're all set LOL
Author:  TopherM [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
I recently changed my focus to lightweight and small footprint. After not being able to use the back set of my car for the last 5 years, my goal was to make everything fit in the 20 or so square feet in the cargo bay of my Nissan XTerra, without sacrificing sound.

I had some DB Technologies SUB 12s that I used in my mobile rig that I put into service in my club rig. 40 lbs each, 12" powered subs, 400 watts, rival most 15" subs.

http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-DBSUB12?source=froogle

I then bought some EV sx300s for the tops off craigslist for $200.00 each. Also about 40 lbs each, small footprint, 12" LF, used for highs and mids.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ELVSX300E

The rack is a Yamaha MG16/6 mixer, DBX Driverack PA, Yamaha S5000P amp for the EVs, 1U ART SLA1 bridged powering a Yamaha BR12 monitor.

I leave the amp/driverack rack at my venue. The rack also has two 4U rack drawers that houses my cables, books, and computer (under lock and key).

When I have a mobile gig, I use the same speakers with a separate mobile rack that has a Crown XLS802, a BBE 362, and a Yamaha MG12/4FX mixer (plus a Fender 1270 powered monitor, if needed).

Pretty top notch sound, very mobile.
Author:  mrscott [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
jamkaraoke @ Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:17 am wrote:
Mr. Scott

That criteria would be a challenge !!!! :D

I think to produce earth shaking lows -- You'll need either HEAVY SPEAKERS or SUBS which in any case does not reduce your rig. The word you are missing is COMPROMISE. What system is PORTABLE - NOT TOO HEAVY - easy to set up with the least amount of compromise on sound and is suitable for a karaoke show and not Carnegie Hall in terms of COST.

From what I've read the QSC K series powered speakers are LIGHT and awesome sounding with plenty of punch - match that with 1 or 2 QSC K subs and you have a great sounding lighter system. Now you can add yoru mixer and DRIVERACK PROCESSOR and your're all set LOL


I have heard the QSC line of powered subs and satellites, and I must say they ROCK! These are actually what I am leaning towards. Like you said, "compromise", hehe don't know the meaning of the word. I want it all!! They are portable, and have outstanding sound quality, just heavy for the subs, but they have wheels. The satellite speakers are light however, so it works well. I am not really worried about the cost, because this is just a thought and a challenge to see what other have for ideas. So far, some great ideas out there, I have researched some of the input, and I like what I see so far.

Keep it going ya'll.
Author:  skipper [ Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
Have you tried Bose L1 c?

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/sho ... /index.jsp
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
skipper @ Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:46 am wrote:
Have you tried Bose L1 c?

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/sho ... /index.jsp

Those are the last things i'd want for a serious system. Can get so much more for the cost of even the basic system.
Author:  TopherM [ Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
I'd put a BOSE L1 in a coffee house or smalllllllll bar, but no way I'd use that for a crowd of more than 30 or so peeps.

I have a single L1 bar that I use for occational acoustic guitar gigs, and it sounds great, but I wouldn't want to drive it very hard.

As far as portability and ease of set up, it is top notch, but so are those all-in-one VocoPro systems. Oh noooooooooo.....VocoProoooooooo!!
Author:  hamsamich [ Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
my dad has the L1. it rattles at higher volumes (when singing ito it) and needs more woof. i can't believe how much they cost for what you get. no thanks. looks kinda cool though.
Author:  mroctober [ Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The ideal set-up challenge.
I use two Bose L1's and 2B1 subs with a rack filled with

power conditioner

mackie CFX12

2 Shure SM58 Wireless mics

1 EV wireless

Hard drive

video switch

single tray RSQ

set up is 15 min or less sound is great 750 watts each on the BOSE......................... it works for me
all fits nice in my Sport Trac
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