Karaoke Forums

If someone just admits they are pirating, you almost have to respect their candor, but when they are pirating and trying to convince themselves and me that they are not, it is insulting, .... The following email was sent to me...they obviously found my contact info because I am a pro host...and it is addressed in the salutation to me as a pro host...but he gives the caveat that this is completely legal for private use and goes into ASCAP fees etc... Have a lookseee...:

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HI KARAOKE DJ,

Highest Quality Karaoke Music for less than a Penny Per Song!!!




This is a brand new external 500GB USB hard drive (Seagate External USB 2.0 with external power supply, everything including cables, 5 year warranty) with 150,000 + songs all the very best professional quality...



This is great for the beginner or expert DJ/KJ that wants to do Karaoke with a Laptop or Desktop Computer (Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7).



This hard drive is updated through January 2010 with all the new stuff plus all the classics from the beginning.



These are all the popular karaoke brand names… and they are all digital format CDG+MP3.



Designed to play on the fly on a Laptop or desktop computer. It's easy to use, instant on the fly requests. Just type in the Artist or Title and Play. Never type in a number again on a CAV system or Looking through your CDs to find that song. Super easy to use.



Super simple software is included. This software allows you to run a complete professional Karaoke Show with your computer screen and external TV or Monitor for the display of your Karaoke Words. Use your PC Audio output for the music.



A printable adobe acrobat file with the entire songbook of all the songs on the hard drive is included. I can send one to you in advance but please be a serious buyer. I can include a printed (hard copy) song selection book for an additional charge. It is a Very Large Book.



Just under 500GB's of past and current KARAOKE SONGS with KARAOKE SOFTWARE. Songs from all the major labels that produce the worlds best karaoke CDG+MP3. NO CHEAP MIDI’s. All The Highest Quality Available!



SUPER EASY to set up and use, you will master it in 15 minutes. Just type in the Artist or Title and Play. My 9 year old daughter uses it regularly without any difficulty.



I am friendly and professional and give you Unlimited Technical Customer Support BEFORE AND AFTER THE SALE for all technical levels. I am Windows PC Certified. No question is too basic and I take the time to make sure you get it right!!! It is so easy and fun you will be amazed!!! “Super easy set-up!”



Friendly, reliable and professional service with complete customer support and satisfaction... I am constantly available every step of the way. I give extra care and reliability and it shows…



Thank you for looking! PAYPAL CERTIFIED, EBAY RATED 500+ 100%



Legality:



These are licensed copies of materials and software FOR PRIVATE USE ONLY.

Law abidance is my priority. I am simply selling my personal library at a substantial loss. Proper Royalties have been paid.



More About Legality:



As you may know even some of the main karaoke producers have had litigation with artists associations. My lawyer that does substantial work with copyrighted materials had indicated that for the United States royalties need to be paid to ASCAP and BMI. I am a member in good standing to both associations.



Some music, let say like "Danny Boy" or "Green Sleeves" or "Frosty the Snowman" is now public domain and does require licensing. This is further complicated by the fundamental "change" of some of the art... As in the fact that the "Lead Vocal Artist" is not appearing on the work, So for example, Nat King Coles “White Christmas” is a none issue...



I imagine that if we wrote all the pertinent information on this issue it would contain VOLUMES of LEGALITY. However basically if you take your due diligence in "private presentations” and pay your ASCAP and or BMI dues you are covered...



Thank you!

you left out the important part HOW MUCH ???

Yeah, and a link where to buy it at??
[schild=11 fontcolor=0000FF shadowcolor=FFFF00 shieldshadow=1] Just Kidding![/schild]

Just gotta love it when he says it's perfect for the professional, then says it
s only good for private use. What a maroon.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

#1 The manus won't come after you if they provided the actual discs the songs came off of with the drive.
#2 They start out with Dear Karaoke DJ. That means they are targeting professionals so their disclaimer that it is only for private use is moot.

I agree with Timberlea, What a Maroon.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I know, I'll pay for it with a photo copy of a someone elses credit card since some guy in nigeria said it was a legal copy. Will these people ever stop. I wonder how many "fools " have been had by this one (you know what they say about a "fool and his money.....").

Post the link if you have it.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Private use only=

Do not use this anywhere where anyone will see it who could get the seller busted for doing something illegal.

As far as I know there is no difference between a copy of a song for Private or Public use at the time of purchase of the songs.

The fee for public use is paid through ASCAP/BMI.

And since he stated that "I am simply selling my personal library at a substantial loss.", does that mean he will include all of his discs with the harddrive?

BTW... I caught that part about PRIVATE USE ONLY too.

Maybe we should make him a generous offer and buy just his discs, he can keep his hard drive.

They should wear a patch over one eye, and have a hook for a hand.......make it easier to identify one.....
sure seems like most of my cdgs say not for commercial use........kind of another way of saying for private use, I think...... .......good thing many of you weren't around 2000 years ago.......that woman would have been stoned for sure....

Of course she would have been stoned. It would have been her first time singing karaoke.

Frosty the snowman was written in 1950 and is still under copyright. Remember even "Happy Birthday" is still under copyright.

Karaoke would be pretty thin if we had to rely on out of copyright songs like Greensleves and Danny Boy.

I don't know why this guy brings up this aspect, I really don't know what I would do with a hard drive full of 100,000 the biggest karaoke hits of songs written before 1923. Sure maybe a few of them are worth owning, but 100k is probably overkill for those without access to a time machine.

Needless to say remember how Ice Ice baby got copyright problems from just a few notes from under pressure. Keep me away from this guys lawyer, unless he is going to be on the other side of a trial in which I am involved.

This "pirate" is a marketing genius IMHO. And don't read into what I posted that I am in anyway supporting his efforts or his marketing piece!



THAT MAY BE TRUE DEPENDING UPON HOW YOU INTERPRET WHAT HE MEANS BY "LICENSED" AND "COPIES". IS NOT A MUSIC CD LICENSED AND AREN'T COPIES OF MASTERS SOLD EVERYDAY?



SURE, IF HE IS SELLING THE DISCS AS WELL! BUT, OF COURSE, HE NEVER MENTIONS A WORD ABOUT HOW MANY DISCS ARE INVOLVED, WHAT MANUFACTURERS ARE INCLUDED, ETC

THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE DEPENDING HOW YOU INTERPRET "PROPER" AND "ROYALTIES". FOR ONE, IS THE LICENSING FEE PAID BY THE CDG MANUFACTURER TECHNICAL LABELED AS A ROYALTY IN THE LICENSING DOCUMENT? IF THEY ARE, THAN THE MANUFACTURER OF THE CDG'S PAID THE PROPER ROYALTIES TO THE PUBLISHERS AND COMPOSERS WHEN THE DISC WAS LICENSED. THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY ROYALTIES DUE FROM THE KARAOKE MANUFACTURERS FOR BOOTLEGGED COPIES OF THEIR PRODUCTS.




THE PRECEDING IS ALMOST PURE BS. KARAOKE MANUFACTURERS DO NOT GET THEIR RIGHTS FROM ARTISTS SO THERE HAS BEEN NO LITIGATION AGAINST KARAOKE COMPANIES BY ARTISTS OTHER THAN, POSSIBLY, NOT TO USE THEIR NAMES IN PROMOTING THE TRACKS BEING OFFERED.

AND WHILE ROYALTIES DO GET PAID TO ASCAP, BMI (AND SESAC), THEY ARE NOT PAID BY KARAOKE MANUFACTURERS.

ASCAP, BMI AND SESAC ONLY REPRESENT PUBLISHERS, COMPOSERS AND LYRICISTS AND ACT AS AGENTS FOR THEM IN REGARD TO COLLECTING ROYALTIES. THOSE COMPANIES ARE NOT MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATIONS AND THOSE REPRESENTED BY THEM DO NOT HAVE LABELS SUCH AS "MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING" OR ANY OTHER QUALITATIVE TERMS!



I DON'T KNOW WHAT A "NONE ISSUE IS"! I DO KNOW THAT WHITE CHRISTMAS WAS WRITTEN BY IRVING BERLIN AND IS NOT IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. I ALSO KNOW THAT WHO THE ARTIST IS/WAS HAS NO BEARING ON THE LICENSING OF MUSIC FOR COMMERCIAL USE OR IN COLLECTING ROYALTIES FOR AIR PLAY.



HOPEFULLY THE LAST STATEMENT REGARDING ASCAP AND BMI DUES BEING PAID (THERE AREN'T ANY), WILL BE TAKEN LITERALLY AND WILL BE REASON ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO AVOID THIS TRANSACTION AND THIS THIEF

what kind of joint was it.......

tovmod, before you go shouting all over this forum about somebody else's BS, kindly take the time to ascertain YOUR facts are straight...

quote from the ASCAP website...

"What Is ASCAP?
ASCAP is a membership association of more than 370,000 U.S. composers, songwriters, lyricists, and music publishers of every kind of music."


Nobody seems to have picked up on the point that ASCAP and BMI are concerned with the public performance of copyrighted music, and not with the mechanical recording of the music. Yes, you can use a CD or CDG that is labeled "for private use" in a public environment, as long as you have the permission to do so from the copyright holder. That is what the ASCAP and BMI licences are for.

What amuses me is that, as this person is selling copies of copyrighted music on a hard drive, there is no mention of the relevant licensing for mechanical rights ... being the Harry Fox Agency, if I'm not mistaken.

Harry Fox is the agent for many artists that have signed with them for mechanical+ synconization rights, but by no means all, a lot of bands/artists are independent, probably a majority. Far more artists are independent for this than for the perfomance rights covered by ASCAP/BMI for which independents of significant artists are quite rare.

That is the main reason why legal karaoke is so hard to make in the US, there is no one central agency to contact for ALL sync/mechanical rights. Since approval is required and for many bands/artists (especially for bands that have broken up or dead artists) just figuring out who can give approval can be difficult. Not only that the person giving approval can charge whatever they want, so the cost involved may make karaoke economically impractical for some artists.

There have been several cases when artists have sued karaoke companies for either failure to negotiate or pay the appropriate fees to the artist for karaoke songs that have been made. This has ended up with some disks being recalled or stopped in manufacture (example SC Eagles).

Here is an example:
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/se ... nsing.html

Just because Priddis is mentioned here, does not mean that other manus have not undergone similar problems.

Exactly, Dr Fred! The point being that ASCAP and BMI have nothing to do with licensing for recordings (in this case, music files stored on a hard drive), only for licensing to perform (play) those recordings in a public/commercial environment.

Before you go "spouting off" about "membership" in those organizations, why not provide the notation on their website as to what the membership costs? Unless you already understand that these organizations are not truly "membership" groups
... which you didn't make clear! But if you do understand that, then I don't understand what your confusion is with my previous comments?

And before "you go spouting off" half-cocked about what those organizations do, why not do more research including the following information that I had provided on a different thread just last month?

(This is the link to THE FOLLOWING:
http://jagmmp.com/music_articles/should ... sesac.html)

Should I Join ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC?
By: Jerry A. Greene

Question: Should I join ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC?

Answer: The answer to this really depends on your personal preferences.

First thing you must realize is that SESAC is usually very hard to get into, unless you are already having great success in the music business...it's almost like you have to be invited to join. For most composers, songwriter, or publishers, this isn't an option..

This leaves, ASCAP vs BMI. Now, this is my personal opinion, not because of my affiliation, but I "believe" ASCAP to be the better choice. My reason for this is that ASCAP was founded and is still run by the composers, authors and publishers which makes up it's membership. BMI, on the other hand, is run by broadcasters, and are generally the same people that don't want to pay for use of music (broadcasters make money through advertising, and the more of it they can keep, the better). This seems, to me anyway, to be a conflict of interest. I would rather have people on my side, helping me to make a living from my music.

As a writer, you can only belong to one of the 3 performing rights organizations. As a publisher, you can belong to all 3, which is important if you want to publish other writers' works. If you are going to self publish, please bear in mind that a publisher can only publish songs owned by a member of that organization.

Both ASCAP and BMI fight for the top spot in the music industry. They both want to be known as being the best and paying their members the most money. Which pays more? Well, from what I heard lately, BMI seems to pay out bigger in the beginning, adding bonuses to member that get their songs into the mainstream quickly, but then the money tapers off. ASCAP seems to pay a more steady rate over the long haul and (usually) a better income over time. This is all subjective though because it relies on so many factors including where the song is on the charts and how the competition is doing. There are never any 2 songs doing exactly the same thing on the charts and also getting the most cover recordings and other performing rights. The best way to tell how each organization pays its members is for a song to be owned by an ASCAP writer and publisher (50%) and a BMI writer and publisher (50%) and then compare the income.

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So, as you may now BETTER understand, Murray C, the term "membership" is used loosely by those groups to denote a contractual relationship where the mentioned organizations collect royalties for their "members". Understand further that the members DON"T exist in "Good Standing" or any other standing as implied in the posting made by the THIEF that I was critiquing!

And if you truly understood the what those organizations do along with the essence of my PREVIOUS POST about THE THIEF'S "membership" in ASCAP & BMI you would have realized that my post implied many things about his use of the term "membership", including but not limited to the following:

1. That he is neither a publisher, composer, or lyricist which would preclude him from being a "member"
2. That those organizations are not "membership" organizations (in the sense of groups like the PTA, or Girl Scouts, or Chamber Of Commerce, or The American Legion or The Lions Club or etc) as some might conclude they are if they relied solely upon your post and the THIEF's statements
3. And that the use of the term "membership" is more similar TO BEING A "MEMBER" OF A GYM which most people contract to become!
4. and MOST IMPORTANT AND PRIMARILY WHAT I ADDRESSED WAS his membership in good standing terminology which is completely BS!

GOT IT NOW?

From their website:
Why Join ASCAP? Joining ASCAP is a critical step in your career in music. By joining ASCAP you can begin to register your songs, collect performance royalties and take advantage of many exclusive career benefits. As the only member-owned performing rights organization in the U.S., ASCAP is free from conflicting interests. Everything that ASCAP does, from collecting and distributing royalties to protecting and strengthening copyright to developing and supporting your career, is done to serve you throughout your life in music.

There is a one time, nominal processing fee of $35 to apply for ASCAP membership, but there are no annual dues. You can join as a writer or a publisher or both - the processing fee is $35 for each application. This fee is non-refundable. Click one of the buttons below to start filling out the online application. We look forward to welcoming you to the ASCAP family.

http://www.ascap.com/about/howjoin.asp

Join BMI

Join the more than 400,000 top songwriters, composers and music publishers who have chosen BMI to ensure they get paid when their music gets played.

It's free for songwriters and takes about 5 minutes to complete.

http://www.bmi.com/join/?link=navbar

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A club or dj/kj cannot join ascap/bmi. They pay a licensing fee to allow the songs that are registered to the artists that do belong to be played in the clubs. The artists do get money from the licensing from clubs - it's more of a blanket type amount as most clubs don't have to register which songs are necessarily being played like a radio station or tv broadcast - in which they get payed an amount on how many times they are played or used.

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