Karaoke Forums

Well hello all,

Right ill keep this short and sweet, i have the following:

Behringer FX 1222Pro mixer

Shure SM58 corded mic
Sennheise E818 SII corded mic

The problem i seem to be having is i cant get the mics loud enough to really hear over the vocals, although the set up is in a small conservatory at the moment, im worried that when it comes to a gig im going to have loads of feedback and not have the control over it quickly enough.

Im new to the KJ scene and really dont want to let myself down at my first gig later this month!

Hopefully somebody could point me in the right direction and give me some tips about setting up, i know that every singer will need a different mix but then thats a whole new story!

Please help

Wayne

That makes no sense at all to me. The mics *are* the vocals.


Unless you tell us 1) what type of cable you are using (it should be XLR->XLR), 2) what all the settings on your channel strips are, and 3) what your amp/speaker combo is, then there is nothing we can do.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Thanks for picking that up, actually meant over the music, not the vocals!

Im using XLR > XLR for both mics on balanced channels, unbalanced seems to give me more volume but i dont think that they are the ones i should be using for vocals ? Or am i wrong ?

The amp is a prosound 400W and the speakers are Peavey XT series 350W RMS Black widow equiped...

In terms of setting on the channel strips if i have what i think your asking for then they are as follows:

1) Level set (has to be almost full) which in turn then clips all the time

2) High / Mid / Low frequencies, i havent really playes with these too much yet

Does this make any more sense ? Please do excuse me, im new in the game and just trying to get it right!

Wayne

It sounds like you are simply running your music too high. If you are clipping the mic channels, the gain needs to be turned down - you don't want clipping AT ALL, if you see that clip light at any point, you need to turn the gain down on that channel. Start your eq all at 12:00 setting - most likely you will cut some of the lows, and maybe add a smidge of highs. On your music channel, chances are you won't need to have the gain set as high as the mics, turn the gain on that channel to maybe 9-10 oclock.
I can tell you right off the bat your amp is WAY underpowered for those speakers. The Black Widow cabs usually like about 700 watts per channel. If the amp you have is only 400 watts total, this is a huge dent in the sound.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Thanks Lonman,

the gear came as a whole set up i bought from family so it wasnt all my choice.

In terms of the amp it is 400 W total, im therefore guesing that running those speakers on that amp isnt do me any favours ?

THe thing with the mics is that if i turn the gain down to the level you say i cant hear a thing, admittedly i am stood in front of the speakers so its hard to hear anyway but i seriously cant hear anything coming from the mic!, if i was to turn the gain on the amp up would that make a positive difference ?

Thanks for the help!

Wayne

Just gone to have a play with the suggestions made and noticed that the mics wouldnt be clipping, the red light never comes on actually!

There is an amber light by each channel that says level set and this is the one that i get flashing at me, is this okay ?

Try this. Bring down all your faders and turn your input attenuation (gain knob) all the way down on each channel. Now one at a time solo each channel while providing peak level from the source (mic or music source). Bring up the gain until you just start to see the clip light hit, now back it off just a hair. Do this for all channels. Now go back and bring the faders on the mic channels up to 0 or unity. Begin talking in the mics and bring the main mix fader up until you have a comfortable level for the room your in. Now bring up the music fader until it fits nicely underneath.

My guess is that you're pushing the music too hard trying to get more volume out of the amplifier than it's able to provide. Then when you add the vocals to the mix, you can't get them over the music without clipping on the input. The method above will get you a quick and dirty gain structure and mix that will work. Now if you can't get the amount of volume you need for your room, you know that it is your underpowered amp that is the issue (and yes Lon is correct, very small amp for those cabinets).

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Thanks for the very detailed reply, great help!

If i understand you correctly, i basically turn everything down to zero and work my way up until it is confortable for that particular room ?

If the above is the case would i start with the mic or the music ? Surely i need to start with music so the mics have something to work to ? Or am i wrong ?

I normally have the amp channels halfway up and thats it, i never push the amp, with the volume set on the mixer being roughly half way on the main mix then just over halfway on the CD+G player channel, make sense ?

Im starting to think buying this lot might have been a big mistake!

Im so sorry for being a PITB and i really do appreciate the help!

Wayne

There's part of your problem. You want the amp output knobs about all the way up. You control the overall volume with the mixer fader. Don't think of the amp knobs as volume, only as input attenuation. You would only put them lower if your speakers were rated lower than your amp.

Basically, you need a bigger amp.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Ahhh, now im beginning to see...

Right, first opportunity i get tomorrow ill try it with the amp full, i guess it wont clip unless the mixer is too loud ?

Ever had a light bulb moment ?

Thank you so much for all of your help!

Wayne

Right. Make sure no little red lights go off.....

It's still going to be *way* underpowered. If they are telling you 400w, that is probably peak or bridged into 4 ohms and it really means 150w per channel into 8 ohms at best. The speakers want 700. It is not going to work well at all, no matter what you do.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I use the same mixer on my smaller set-up. And to add to what Letitrip provided, when I set my music input to the board, (on stereo channels 7/8,9/10, or 11/12) I adjust the input level (Trim or Gain) until the yellow light starts to flicker and then back it of until it doesn't. I then adjust my music volume with the corresponding slider to the required comfort level. I do the same with the mics, however each singer is different and without a compressor you may find that the mics get louder with singers who project more. For some of my more extreme projectors, I decrease the input level untill the light stops flikering. This somtimes requires an associated increase of the applicable channel's slider

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EveningStar Entertainment & Events
JR & Michele LaPorte
Peoria, AZ

Ok,

So another thought and idea...

I do have 2 of these amps, both exactly the same both 400W, is there anyway i can combine the two to make 800W rather than have an initial outlay of at least £100 ? And that would be second hand at that!

Is this possible ?

Thanks for this, i dont suppose you happen to know where i could get the manual for this mixer do you ? Been looking for it but just cant locate one!

Wayne

Yes, usually you can "bridge" the amp and drive an 8 ohm speaker. But you would need to post a link to a manual here before anyone could tell you -- doing this is a tad confusing and you have to be very careful to connect things properly.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Looking at the specs for the Prosound 1000 which claims to "replace the legendary Prosound 400", it is probable you would get 400W into eight ohms. If you bridged one to each speaker, then you would be a pretty happy man. It should be enough power to make things sound pretty fair.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

You can download the owners manual from the Behringer website, it won't tell you how to use the mixer bit it will tell you what things are. The FX1222 has been discontinued but you can download the manual for the Xenyx 1222 as it's pretty much the same layout.

Thanks for this again, how would i go about bridging the amps to each individual speaker ? Do i need to start looking at more cables ?

On another note, a DJ friend of mine has this morning promised me a Prosound 1000 Amp! Funny how things work out but then this wont be with me for a while as he isnt moving away for a few months!

Thanks again for all the help!

Wayne

First, as mentioned, get the input sensitivity on the amp (this is what those knobs control, they are not volume controls) turned all the way up.

What you ultimately want to do is get your gain set first. Then setup your mix (the relationship of the vocal levels to the music levels) set up, then finally worry about bringing the whole mix volume to the level you need for the room. Set the mics up first then bring in the music, get your mix right and then you can tweak the overall volume.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke