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Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
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Author:  mrscott [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Let me tell what has transpired over the last few days for me. I wanna see if you agree with my decision, or would you have done things differently?

I have had this gig for about a year now. I hosted on fridays and every other saturday, sharing the weekends with another KJ. Well, to fill you in on some of the details. This venue is a 2 business in one spot, restaurant on one side, bar on the other, separated by a hall and shared bathrooms. I set up in the restaurant side, which has limited space, but more than the bar. They have let families attend the karaoke show til 9 p.m. and then it's adults only. The kitchen is hit and miss as far as food goes, some nights good, some nights you wouldn't feed it to your dogs. The service has been very spotty too, depending on who is working. Seating is limited, as so is the "dance" area. The spot that the karaoke is set up in, is a very tight corner, that since "day 1" we have what I call "stuff" to contend with. Each week its something new in my way. Whether it be decorations, tables, chairs piled up, totes, nick nacks, etc, there is always something. Now, I have been patient with this "stuff" up til now.

In the beginning, they wanted me to help teach a gal who was struggling. Then they liked how I did my job, annd asked me to take over. I already had a friday show at the time that was stable, (although it was very slow) and I asked someone to take that show over for me, so I could give this other place some extra nights, which exactly what I did. Ok, now I was hosting ALL fridays and every other saturday, until last week. Because they pay the other KJ 50 bucks less per show, they wanted to give him more nights because the restaurant is struggling a bit. The owner also had another cafe across town that recently closed down. She brought ALL the tables up to this spot, making an already tight place a total disaster. You couldn't even walk between the tables hardly, let alone get to the karaoke spot.

The other KJ is, well I will be kind, less than professional. The customers don't like his system, selection or how he takes cares of his sinngers. They do however, seem to support me totally. So, one of my regulars, who really dislike this other KJ, called a bunch of the other regulars to make sure they would attend my saturday nights show. I asked the wait-staff what the night before was like, and they told me they had a total of 2 singers at one time, maybe 5 total all night long. And the kitchen closed by 9. My saturday show was pretty busy, not packed but pretty busy with about 34 singers, and about 45-50 customers. However, because the kitchen is so inconsitent, they went out of their way to NOT order food, trying to make a statement to the owners.

I had already made up my mind that this last saturday was going to be my last night there. I believe that the decision to give this other KJ preference, simply on amount of pay, would eventually effect my reputation, and I didn't want to deal with them anymore. So about midnight, I made the announcement. "Folks, sorry to say, I have decided to make this my last show here at Callies because of various reasons. I love you all, and if you have any questions, feel free to talk to me".....

Well, a big resounding "BOOOOOO" came from the audience, and about 30 or more of the people there signed a "petition" that was started by one of the singers, that said basically, "If Scott isn't hosting, we WON"T be back" . I love my people a lot, and feel badly that it seems that I am deserting them, but they all understand why I did what I did. And after the bar closed, about a dozen of us went literally across the street to Denny's for some early breakfast. They all supported my decsion, which I thanked them for. I told them where to find me on other nights.

The good thing that WILL come about, is the fact that I am going to take my old friday show back over, starting this friday. These customers/singers of mine have said they will follow me there, even tho it's about 45 miles away. I just LOVE my fans!!!!

What is your opinions, if I might ask? And would you have done things differently?

A big thanks in advance,
Scott
Author:  Alan B [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Scott,

I totally agree with you and support your decision. You made the right choice!

Alan
Author:  DangerousDanKaraoke [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Scott, while I don't understand the owner's logic of alternating 2 KJs on the same night of the week I have to say it was very unprofessional for you to burn a bridge by announcing it would be your last Saturday night. You can't tell me that you didn't know what the fallout would be. I would have taken the high road and kept whatever business matters or venue drama you had to endure "backstage" between you and the owner. The crowd would have figured it out soon enough.

I don't doubt you were frustrated, but it was your choice to let this owner treat you like a doormat from the time you agreed to help another "struggling" host. Why would any KJ give someone who is essentially a competitor (another host engaged on their own behalf, not working for you) the benefit of their experience to improve someone else's show?

Then you let the venue treat YOU like "junk" by allowing them to stack junk in your setup area. I would have immediately had a conversation with the owner letting him know that whatever they want to put there during the week is fine, but you expect your setup area to be free and clear of clutter on the days you perform. No reason you should either have to shoehorn yourself in a corner, or take the extra time to clear out YOUR working area. A definite lack of respect.

As for all those bar's patrons driving 45 miles to your new show every week? I'd be surprised if that happens once let alone at all. People talk a lot of $#!+ when they're fired up about a "cause".

The fact is most karaoke barflies are singing at a place that's convenient for them and close to home. Think they want to drink beer all night and then risk driving 45 miles and getting a DUI? Ain't likely. When I worked in radio, I would see it all the time. A high-profile DJ would get canned for one reason or another, listeners would organize petitions and protests saying they would never listen again. In a few weeks, the fired DJ was long forgotten and the ratings didn't suffer. (And that's only asking someone to punch a different button on their radio...not driving NINETY MILES round trip.)

Your old venue may or may not keep the substandard host because of their rate. The bar might even be netting more money paying that host $50 and closing earlier than pay you 3-4 times as much and staying open later.

Don't obsess on revenge...just be glad you're out of a bad situation and onto a better venue where you can build another audience. And don't let the new venue treat you like crap! Good luck!
Author:  Cueball [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Let's see now....

The food is Hit or miss, so is the service, and you work in the Restaurant side of the business (which means the regulars are seated at tables where a Waiter or Waitress is supposed to be serving them, and they're not supposed to be going to the other room (the Bar) to buy their own drinks because of this). You were doing a gig there every Friday, and every other Saturday, and now they want to take some of those nights away from you and give it to the other KJ (who they pay less for). Not only that, they don't respect your work-space.

Is that about everything?

As long as you're not too dependent on the money you take in from that gig, I would quit too. If I remember correctly, you once said that you live in an area where the Bars are few and far apart (as evidenced from what you said about your other Friday night gig being 45 minutes away). Sounds like, it would be too much work for your regulars to keep track of which night you're there as vs the other KJ. If I didn't like the way the other KJ ran his show, I'd hate to show up on a night when he was there and I was expecting it to be you. The other KJ might not mess up your reputation, but he can mess up your schedule. The Management obviously has no respect for you (for reasons already stated), so why should you show a loyalty to them?


mrscott @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:52 pm wrote:
I had already made up my mind that this last saturday was going to be my last night there. I believe that the decision to give this other KJ preference, simply on amount of pay, would eventually effect my reputation, and I didn't want to deal with them anymore. So about midnight, I made the announcement. "Folks, sorry to say, I have decided to make this my last show here at Callies because of various reasons. I love you all, and if you have any questions, feel free to talk to me".....



I'm assuming that you already told Management that you were quitting before you made that announcement over the Mic. Otherwise, I agree with Dangerous Dan about how you quit... that it was a poor way to do it (regardless of what the Management did to you). I do agree with what Dangerous Dan about what may happen with your Regulars. They might not follow you to a new location which is 45 miles away. Dan is right about how people can "talk the talk" and get caught up in the moment.
Author:  DannyG2006 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
I totally agree with cueball on this one. If they don't respect you enough to make sure your set up area is clear so you can set up then it's time to find another gig.
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
I agree for the reasons you quit, how you did it I wouldn't have done it over the mic and without some kind of notice to management/owners and a week or two - never burn a bridge if possible.
But I also agree that people won't necessarily follow you to the new gig. When I was mobile, sure i'd have my followers, but I also heard the, wherever you host i'll be there speel & one of my shows was probably less than 10 minutes away from my main show & even though I was able to play the songs that are 'not listed' in the book of the main club (songs with cussing), I got maybe a spattering of people (never the same from week to week) from the other club that would come in. Most stayed at the place they were comfortable in which was the other bar. Now being you will no longer be at the other club this could be a factor in your favor, but still wouldn't get too excited about it yet. Let us know what happens over the next few weeks as far as the followers.
Author:  mrscott [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Lonman @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:49 pm wrote:
I agree for the reasons you quit, how you did it I wouldn't have done it over the mic and without some kind of notice to management/owners and a week or two - never burn a bridge if possible.
But I also agree that people won't necessarily follow you to the new gig. When I was mobile, sure i'd have my followers, but I also heard the, wherever you host i'll be there speel & one of my shows was probably less than 10 minutes away from my main show & even though I was able to play the songs that are 'not listed' in the book of the main club (songs with cussing), I got maybe a spattering of people (never the same from week to week) from the other club that would come in. Most stayed at the place they were comfortable in which was the other bar. Now being you will no longer be at the other club this could be a factor in your favor, but still wouldn't get too excited about it yet. Let us know what happens over the next few weeks as far as the followers.


Honestly Lonnie, why would I give them notice of me leaving when they gave me NO notice about replacing me on friday night? We planned our schedule months ago, and she gave me 24 hours notice that she changed it. I don't think for a minute that she has any respect for anyone, she's just that type of person. I am not they type of person who likes to burn bridges, but I felt in this case, it was the right thing to do.

Now, as far as people following me to my other show, that is to be seen. I agree, some talk the talk, but when it comes time to act, it's a totally different story. I will keep everyone posted on what happens there. My old friday show will really be happy to see me back, it's been struggling for quite some time, and not to toot my own horn, I will definitely be a boon to their business.

Thanks for all your reply's. They are very much appreciated.
Author:  Dr Fred [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
I agree with you on quitting, if the show is not working and you think you can do another better elsewhere, then by all means move.

Building a crowd really depends on the KJ and the crowd may go out of their way to go to one KJ's show and avoid another. If a customer does not know the schedule (or if it is complex pattern) then the bad kj will really hurt attendance at the other KJ's show.

On the other hand even if the club has not done well on your part I think it is best to warn the owners by a 2 week notice, even if they have not treated you that well. The reason being is that future gigs may ask the owner for a reference and that action may come back to hurt you. This may not be a problem if you have a good enough reputation otherwise. Being treated non professionally is no reason to not walk from a gig profesionally.
Author:  Lonman [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
mrscott @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:20 pm wrote:
Lonman @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:49 pm wrote:
I agree for the reasons you quit, how you did it I wouldn't have done it over the mic and without some kind of notice to management/owners and a week or two - never burn a bridge if possible.
But I also agree that people won't necessarily follow you to the new gig. When I was mobile, sure i'd have my followers, but I also heard the, wherever you host i'll be there speel & one of my shows was probably less than 10 minutes away from my main show & even though I was able to play the songs that are 'not listed' in the book of the main club (songs with cussing), I got maybe a spattering of people (never the same from week to week) from the other club that would come in. Most stayed at the place they were comfortable in which was the other bar. Now being you will no longer be at the other club this could be a factor in your favor, but still wouldn't get too excited about it yet. Let us know what happens over the next few weeks as far as the followers.


Honestly Lonnie, why would I give them notice of me leaving when they gave me NO notice about replacing me on friday night? We planned our schedule months ago, and she gave me 24 hours notice that she changed it. I don't think for a minute that she has any respect for anyone, she's just that type of person. I am not they type of person who likes to burn bridges, but I felt in this case, it was the right thing to do.

Well I could see how you'd want to since they gave you no notice, but I still wouldn't have done it (stoop to their level IMO) in that manner. Let the management know first, then let the customers know (hopefully you have contact info for most via email, facebook, myspace, twitter, etc) when your last show will be. Then if the management drops you before you can do your last 'going away' show, this reflects even more on them than rather than you.
Author:  DangerousDanKaraoke [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Dr Fred @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:31 pm wrote:
Being treated non professionally is no reason to not walk from a gig profesionally.
I have no problem with quitting a gig like that with no notice. But it should not have been done on stage.

In that situation, at the end of the night when the doors are closed and everyone has left, after I had my night's cash in hand I would have at THAT time told the bar to pound sand. If the owner cared to know why, then I would have gone down the list. But sounds like the owner didn't care to treat his people right anyway, so no love lost.
Author:  Cueball [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
mrscott @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:20 pm wrote:
why would I give them notice of me leaving when they gave me NO notice about replacing me on friday night? We planned our schedule months ago, and she gave me 24 hours notice that she changed it. I don't think for a minute that she has any respect for anyone, she's just that type of person. I am not they type of person who likes to burn bridges, but I felt in this case, it was the right thing to do.


It's called being a Professional. Never stoop to the "Do unto others as they do unto you" level.
Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Shoulda given them 2 weeks. Thats THE PROFESSIONAL THING TO DO. Then on your actual final night of the two weeks make your announcement to the crowd.

2 weeks notice is STANDARD PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS PRACTICE. Whether you like them personally or not.

Give them your two weeks and at that time they may well just say OK Your Finished As Of Tonight(a common business practice).

As to people following you from place to place............dont hold your breath.

I concur with Dan and Cueball.
Author:  mrscott [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
cueball @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:52 pm wrote:
mrscott @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:20 pm wrote:
why would I give them notice of me leaving when they gave me NO notice about replacing me on friday night? We planned our schedule months ago, and she gave me 24 hours notice that she changed it. I don't think for a minute that she has any respect for anyone, she's just that type of person. I am not they type of person who likes to burn bridges, but I felt in this case, it was the right thing to do.


It's called being a Professional. Never stoop to the "Do unto others as they do unto you" level.


I sort of agree, to a point. I just wanted to leave on "my terms" not theirs. They set the tone with how they changed the schedule, I finished on my note.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Mr Scott -- GOOD FOR YOU !!
Forget all this Profesional BS being thrown about. You acted profesional and ran a good show. Idiot management deserves to be treated as such....

#1 - If they gave you no notice ---you are not obligated to give them any different
#2 - Announcing you last night there ON MIC is questionable --you could have spoken to each singer OFF MIC but I can understand your frustration.

Look ahead and don't look back..burned bridges are only bad if you plan to walk back over them LOL....In this case this place has no FUTURE potential for you.

Upwards and Onwards to you !!!
Author:  Avg Joe [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
You do what you can and live with it. If you feel you were in the right, then that's all that matters. No you don't want to burn bridges, but it is what it is. Not that it makes it right, but it doesn't sound like you set the fire to that bridge first. I see good points of both sides being discussed.

Regarding the following traveling that far, for us, no chance! Had a good friend who occasionally would run a show that distance. I had to say sorry buddy, you're on your own. Not that we drink alot, but we don't care to travel more than 25 minutes. 45 miles is way to far.

The good news is, it sounds you're happier to be at the old gig. So this all works, good for you.
Author:  tovmod [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
not sure why you need anyone's opinion?

you've been around as long as some and more than others. You knew what you wanted to do and how to do it. If the owner or some customers "called you out" about it, maybe you might want the opinions of others?

as to defining what is "professional" and when you need to act "professionally", that is completely up to you!

I've have seen so many "unprofessional" activities since I started this endeavor that I can't take pause over them - starting with pirates and the venues who will knowingly hire them!
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
mrscott @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:22 pm wrote:
cueball @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:52 pm wrote:
mrscott @ Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:20 pm wrote:
why would I give them notice of me leaving when they gave me NO notice about replacing me on friday night? We planned our schedule months ago, and she gave me 24 hours notice that she changed it. I don't think for a minute that she has any respect for anyone, she's just that type of person. I am not they type of person who likes to burn bridges, but I felt in this case, it was the right thing to do.


It's called being a Professional. Never stoop to the "Do unto others as they do unto you" level.


I sort of agree, to a point. I just wanted to leave on "my terms" not theirs. They set the tone with how they changed the schedule, I finished on my note.


Actually, the reasons that you left are moot. If you aren't happy, it will be projected, and you won't do your best work- time to quit.

As for HOW you did it: I'm of two minds. I may not think it very professional, but I have left on others' terms way to often.( Especially cancelling after the show is over with zero notice). So, while I may not like it professionally, I for one, am with you in heart, and am glad you shared it here. Thank you.
Author:  jerry12x [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
I remember you posting about this place before
and how much you wanted to make it work for them.
It has taken a lot for you to finally quit.
You gave them longer than many of us would have.

It shows your dedication.
Author:  mrscott [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
jerry12x @ Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:34 pm wrote:
I remember you posting about this place before
and how much you wanted to make it work for them.
It has taken a lot for you to finally quit.
You gave them longer than many of us would have.

It shows your dedication.


Jerry, you are right, the customers there were the best. They supported me from day 1, I really feel badly that it looks like I deserted them. But actually, I am just saving myself from hating it so much there because of the owners and their lack of cooperation. Hopefully some of the customers will follow me.
Author:  TimP [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Walked away from a gig,,,want your opinion
Hey there Scott as a bar ower myself that does Karaoke every night I feel your pain. For you, your nights are everything and it's how you pay your bills, perhaps. For the owers, some of which are just terrible and should never be in business, the night staff sometimes falls to the back burner in order of importance. You stated she had some other location closed so that implies that she wasn't doing very well over all. As for changing your schedual, she should have givin more notice and consulted you before changing your nights. Some times the staff doesn't see everything going on the office and doesn't fully comprehend the full extent of what said owner is going through. The bottom line is if you found another location that makes you happy you should move on.. I would never want any of my staff to stay in my place if they found someplace that, paid more, was closer, was just a better job in general if they were just staying for me. You have that right as long as you realise I also have that right if I find someone cheaper, better, closer. It's business and it shouldn't get personal. Theres nothing wrong with making friends with who you work for or who works for you as long as you don't expect any additional favors for being said friend. Good luck too you out there!
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