Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer

I'm planning on buying a SKB Gig Rig 10/6U to put my stuff in. I was considering finding a rack mountable powered mixer, but then go to thinking maybe I should buy separate mixer & amp?

Wouldn't it be easier to control the sound from a central point (mixer) as opposed to having to adjust at each speaker location?

So with the powered speaker you basically just turn them on and then control the signal sent to them from your mixer? I thought powered speakers typically had the same adjustments found on a PA/mixer (i.e. an eq, bass, treble, reverb, & gain). Does that make it easier to fine tune your sound or does it add more trouble to getting it to sound right?

Thanks Bazza. I have very limited experience with sound equipment.

So if the powered speakers EQ is flat it's not changing the incoming signal from the mixer/source? Basically making it passive with power?

I thought it would flatten the incoming signal and then you'd have to re-adjust at the speaker.

hiteck @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:25 am wrote:

It's simply a matter of EQ'ing at the front end instead of the back end. You shouldn't need to do both.

An EQ simply boosts/cuts certain frequencies. If you have the speaker EQ (or any EQ) set flat, you are simply letting the signal pass through unchanged. It doesn't "flatten" out something that was previously EQ'd earlier in the chain.

Generally you keep the speaker EQ controls flat, and the gains wide open, You then control the volume via how much signal you feed the speakers and contour the sound from your end.

Assuming the amp is matched perfectly to the wattage rating of the speaker, it isn't going to make any difference between an internal amp and external amp.

I think the two things you need to think about most are:

1) How you want to distribute the weight of the amp? Do you want the weight of the amp to be in each speaker, or do you want that weight of the amp in your rack?

In my case, I keep my rack at my venue, so I'd much rather have the 25 lb. amp in the rack that I do nto have to move instead of 12.5 lbs (give or take) added to each speaker that I do have to transport.

2) I also perfer separate components in most cases JUST in case something fails. If you have powered speakers, and something fails, you now have no speaker PLUS no amp. If you have separate components, then if the speaker or amp fails separately, then you just have to troubleshoot or fix the single component.

I do, however, perfer powered speakers for my smaller mobile setup. In situations where I do not need subs, it is much much easier to just bring two powered speakers and a lightweight rack with a mixer and (in my case) a few processor units.

Overall, the choise is more preference than anything else.

I'm working on putting together a portable rig for home use with the occasional carrying to get togethers. Currently I have a Dual CD setup and an old Crate PA but it's very limited in it's abilities. I couldn't even find one like it online... lol

. I have a PV monitor speaker and a powered PA speaker, but plan on buying new speakers as well.

I'm planning on buying a SKB Gig Rig 10/6U to put my stuff in. I was considering finding a rack mountable powered mixer, but then go to thinking maybe I should buy separate mixer & amp?

Haven't determined a budget yet as I usually find what I want and then figure out how to buy it.

Any ideas for a decent quality powered mixer in say the 500-800 watt range? Or should I stay away from the combo units?

Thanks for the feedback jamkaraoke.

I found a really good deal on a mackie 1202 vlz3 so I may just go that way and add an amp. I have a single powered dual channel speaker that's fine for goofin' around at the house and then I could just get some additional powered speakers as I build up my gear. I'm not real concerned about the weight as I am the compactness. I have a '07 Jeep Wrangler and there's just not a whole lot of space for hauling gear so figured the Gig Rig would be great for that plus I could pretty much hook everything up and leave it.

Oh wow thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed that. My old crate PA only has reverb, but even thats good for some songs and giving what sound I have a little depth.

What do you recommend for effects? I'm familiar with effects for guitars, but am clueless to what's all available for vocals.

The 1202vlz3, rack ears, and a Furman RP-8 conditioner (all less than a year old) for $200 so even if I decide I want/need something else this should be a good place to start.

What do you recommend for effects? I'm familiar with effects for guitars, but am clueless to what's all available for vocals.

Would something like this Behringer PMP1280S / B215XL Powered Mixer with Main Speakers Package be worth buying for home and occasional use?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-PMP1280S---B215XL-Powered-Mixer-with-Main-Speakers-plus-Mics-Package-788719-i1432899.gc

Author:	hiteck [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
I'm working on putting together a portable rig for home use with the occasional carrying to get togethers. Currently I have a Dual CD setup and an old Crate PA but it's very limited in it's abilities. I couldn't even find one like it online.... I have a PV monitor speaker and a powered PA speaker, but plan on buying new speakers as well. I'm planning on buying a SKB Gig Rig 10/6U to put my stuff in. I was considering finding a rack mountable powered mixer, but then go to thinking maybe I should buy separate mixer & amp? Haven't determined a budget yet as I usually find what I want and then figure out how to buy it. Any ideas for a decent quality powered mixer in say the 500-800 watt range? Or should I stay away from the combo units?

Author:	hiteck [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Would something like this Behringer PMP1280S / B215XL Powered Mixer with Main Speakers Package be worth buying for home and occasional use? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-PMP1280S---B215XL-Powered-Mixer-with-Main-Speakers-plus-Mics-Package-788719-i1432899.gc

Author:	Manobeer [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:17 pm wrote: I'm planning on buying a SKB Gig Rig 10/6U to put my stuff in. I was considering finding a rack mountable powered mixer, but then go to thinking maybe I should buy separate mixer & amp? For compactness, have you considered powered speakers??? To me a 10/6 rack is pretty big. My 8/2 fits in the trunk of my corolla with a couple powered speakers. And if needed my sub fits in the back seat. I still have room for lighting gear(led).

Author:	hiteck [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Wouldn't it be easier to control the sound from a central point (mixer) as opposed to having to adjust at each speaker location?

Author:	Manobeer [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:02 pm wrote: Wouldn't it be easier to control the sound from a central point (mixer) as opposed to having to adjust at each speaker location? Yes I meant a MIXER(sound board) to powered speakers. My 8/2u slant case holds a full 12 channel(6mic) mixer, and a wireless mic reciever... Mixer is not high end but has built in compressors, effects, USB sound interface. I just wanted something compact and streamlined.

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Author:	hiteck [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
So with the powered speaker you basically just turn them on and then control the signal sent to them from your mixer? I thought powered speakers typically had the same adjustments found on a PA/mixer (i.e. an eq, bass, treble, reverb, & gain). Does that make it easier to fine tune your sound or does it add more trouble to getting it to sound right?

Author:	Bazza [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:59 am wrote: So with the powered speaker you basically just turn them on and then control the signal sent to them from your mixer? I thought powered speakers typically had the same adjustments found on a PA/mixer (i.e. an eq, bass, treble, reverb, & gain). Does that make it easier to fine tune your sound or does it add more trouble to getting it to sound right? Generally you keep the speaker EQ controls flat, and the gains wide open, You then control the volume via how much signal you feed the speakers and contour the sound from your end.

Author:	hiteck [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Thanks Bazza. I have very limited experience with sound equipment. So if the powered speakers EQ is flat it's not changing the incoming signal from the mixer/source? Basically making it passive with power? I thought it would flatten the incoming signal and then you'd have to re-adjust at the speaker.

Author:	Bazza [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:25 am wrote: Thanks Bazza. I have very limited experience with sound equipment. So if the powered speakers EQ is flat it's not changing the incoming signal from the mixer/source? Basically making it passive with power? I thought it would flatten the incoming signal and then you'd have to re-adjust at the speaker. It's simply a matter of EQ'ing at the front end instead of the back end. You shouldn't need to do both. An EQ simply boosts/cuts certain frequencies. If you have the speaker EQ (or any EQ) set flat, you are simply letting the signal pass through unchanged. It doesn't "flatten" out something that was previously EQ'd earlier in the chain.

Author:	hiteck [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Bazza @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:18 am wrote: hiteck @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:25 am wrote: Thanks Bazza. I have very limited experience with sound equipment. So if the powered speakers EQ is flat it's not changing the incoming signal from the mixer/source? Basically making it passive with power? I thought it would flatten the incoming signal and then you'd have to re-adjust at the speaker. It's simply a matter of EQ'ing at the front end instead of the back end. You shouldn't need to do both. An EQ simply boosts/cuts certain frequencies. If you have the speaker EQ (or any EQ) set flat, you are simply letting the signal pass through unchanged. It doesn't "flatten" out something that was previously EQ'd earlier in the chain. That makes sense. This may be hard to answer, but say you were talking same brand or comparable is there any difference in sound/quality with amps in powered speakers vs. seperate amps or powered mixers?

Author:	TopherM [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Assuming the amp is matched perfectly to the wattage rating of the speaker, it isn't going to make any difference between an internal amp and external amp. I think the two things you need to think about most are: 1) How you want to distribute the weight of the amp? Do you want the weight of the amp to be in each speaker, or do you want that weight of the amp in your rack? In my case, I keep my rack at my venue, so I'd much rather have the 25 lb. amp in the rack that I do nto have to move instead of 12.5 lbs (give or take) added to each speaker that I do have to transport. 2) I also perfer separate components in most cases JUST in case something fails. If you have powered speakers, and something fails, you now have no speaker PLUS no amp. If you have separate components, then if the speaker or amp fails separately, then you just have to troubleshoot or fix the single component. I do, however, perfer powered speakers for my smaller mobile setup. In situations where I do not need subs, it is much much easier to just bring two powered speakers and a lightweight rack with a mixer and (in my case) a few processor units. Overall, the choise is more preference than anything else.

Author:	hiteck [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Thanks TopherM that makes a lot of sense. I appreciate everyone's input and patience. I'm pretty new to live audio equipment and hate spending money to learn things that people like you can educate me on before making a purchse I'd end up regretting. Is it better to use same brand equip (i.e. Peavey, Mackie, Yamaha) or do most manufacturers specialize in certain areas and you'll get a better setup mixing matching (i.e. Mackie Mixer, QSC speakers/sub, Crown amp, etc...), or is that just another personal preference thing?

Author:	Manobeer [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Bazza @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:11 am wrote: Generally you keep the speaker EQ controls flat, and the gains wide open, You then control the volume via how much signal you feed the speakers and contour the sound from your end. I guess it varies, I do keep EQ on the speaker flat but do not set the gains wide open. I adjust speaker gains to match up with the mixer, so when the mixer starts hitting the reds so is the speaker. TopherM @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:21 am wrote: Assuming the amp is matched perfectly to the wattage rating of the speaker, it isn't going to make any difference between an internal amp and external amp. I think the two things you need to think about most are: 1) How you want to distribute the weight of the amp? Do you want the weight of the amp to be in each speaker, or do you want that weight of the amp in your rack? In my case, I keep my rack at my venue, so I'd much rather have the 25 lb. amp in the rack that I do nto have to move instead of 12.5 lbs (give or take) added to each speaker that I do have to transport. 2) I also perfer separate components in most cases JUST in case something fails. If you have powered speakers, and something fails, you now have no speaker PLUS no amp. If you have separate components, then if the speaker or amp fails separately, then you just have to troubleshoot or fix the single component. I do, however, perfer powered speakers for my smaller mobile setup. In situations where I do not need subs, it is much much easier to just bring two powered speakers and a lightweight rack with a mixer and (in my case) a few processor units. Overall, the choise is more preference than anything else. I agree with it all being a matter of preference. Some prefer buying powered speakers because they dont have to worry about properly matching the amps with the cabs... Dont even get me started on all the OHMs stuff.

Author:	jamkaraoke [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:17 pm wrote: I'm working on putting together a portable rig for home use with the occasional carrying to get togethers. Currently I have a Dual CD setup and an old Crate PA but it's very limited in it's abilities. I couldn't even find one like it online.... I have a PV monitor speaker and a powered PA speaker, but plan on buying new speakers as well. I'm planning on buying a SKB Gig Rig 10/6U to put my stuff in. I was considering finding a rack mountable powered mixer, but then go to thinking maybe I should buy separate mixer & amp? Haven't determined a budget yet as I usually find what I want and then figure out how to buy it. Any ideas for a decent quality powered mixer in say the 500-800 watt range? Or should I stay away from the combo units? #1 - Be careful you will not find a true 500w x 2 @ 8 0hms powered mixer. That being said I use a powered mixer profesionaly and have used both a powered mixer and an amp&mixer racked in a similiar SKB rig. The powered mixer UNRACKED will be light and easy to move and set up. It will offer you an ability to play stereo or mono and use monitors etc etc. For home or small to medium gigs I love my Yamaha EMX512 but also have used the Behringers. As far as lightweight speakers I would go with the Peavey PR series over the Behringers ( and I like Behringer ) maybe just a personal choice but used both and still use the PR15 for certain occasions. Racking an amp and mixer will give you more power and the ability to add effects etc etc and have it neatly racked --but it gets heavy and bulky. I wouldn't worry too much about matching BRANDS thats a marketing ploy --just makes sure your amps and speakers are suited powere wise and amp/ohm wise .

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Author:	hiteck [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Thanks for the feedback jamkaraoke. I found a really good deal on a mackie 1202 vlz3 so I may just go that way and add an amp. I have a single powered dual channel speaker that's fine for goofin' around at the house and then I could just get some additional powered speakers as I build up my gear. I'm not real concerned about the weight as I am the compactness. I have a '07 Jeep Wrangler and there's just not a whole lot of space for hauling gear so figured the Gig Rig would be great for that plus I could pretty much hook everything up and leave it.

Author:	Lonman [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:58 pm wrote: Thanks for the feedback jamkaraoke. I found a really good deal on a mackie 1202 vlz3 so I may just go that way and add an amp. I have a single powered dual channel speaker that's fine for goofin' around at the house and then I could just get some additional powered speakers as I build up my gear. I'm not real concerned about the weight as I am the compactness. I have a '07 Jeep Wrangler and there's just not a whole lot of space for hauling gear so figured the Gig Rig would be great for that plus I could pretty much hook everything up and leave it. Great mixer, the sound is unmatched for it's size/price, but be aware, there are no effects built in, this is something you would need to add externally.

Author:	hiteck [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
Oh wow thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed that. My old crate PA only has reverb, but even thats good for some songs and giving what sound I have a little depth. What do you recommend for effects? I'm familiar with effects for guitars, but am clueless to what's all available for vocals. The 1202vlz3, rack ears, and a Furman RP-8 conditioner (all less than a year old) for $200 so even if I decide I want/need something else this should be a good place to start.

Author:	Lonman [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:45 pm wrote: Oh wow thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed that. My old crate PA only has reverb, but even thats good for some songs and giving what sound I have a little depth. What do you recommend for effects? I'm familiar with effects for guitars, but am clueless to what's all available for vocals. The 1202vlz3, rack ears, and a Furman RP-8 conditioner (all less than a year old) for $200 so even if I decide I want/need something else this should be a good place to start. Like I said it's agreat sounding board. Mackie uses the same preamps in their VLZ line from the smallest up to their touring consoles - very clean & that is a great price for it with everything else. For effects a cheap route that will work well is something like: http://www.karaokeequipment.com/recordi ... essor.html Small & sounds decent.

Author:	jeffsw6 [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:45 pm wrote: What do you recommend for effects? I'm familiar with effects for guitars, but am clueless to what's all available for vocals. There are many options available for EFX. Probably the most important consideration is getting one that you are comfortable using. I use Lexicon MX400s for everything, this has 4 FX processors in 1U of rack space, but some people do not like it because it is not as user-friendly as two (or more) separate units. It certainly gets the job done for karaoke though, and I use them for bands also.

Author:	vtrod [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Powered or Un-Powered Mixer
hiteck @ Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:29 pm wrote: Would something like this Behringer PMP1280S / B215XL Powered Mixer with Main Speakers Package be worth buying for home and occasional use? http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-PMP1280S---B215XL-Powered-Mixer-with-Main-Speakers-plus-Mics-Package-788719-i1432899.gc Short answer is YES. I have a similar setup, except that the powered mixer is a Yamaha EMX512SC and speakers are EV SX300s. Easy to lug around, not too many cables and quick to setup. It would be perfect for a home based karaoke setup if not overkill. I don't know what effects are available on the behringer mixer, but if it does have half decent effects you don't need the further investment of a dedicated effects module. You should be able to tweak some decent sounds out of it. You might need to upgrade to a seperate amplifier if you decide to add more power to the system. A lot of people might not recommend behringer if you are going to be using it very regularly or at a critical gig, like a wedding or something as the potential for issues seems slightly higher with this brand. (this is MY opinion, I appreciate that others might have different opinions) Just my two cents... hope this helps.