Karaoke Forums

Hello again, is there a machine of some sort that will let you check out how much sound is coming out of the speakers.

I have some different karaoke disk and they all do not sound the same as far as the volume when going to play so would need something to kind of help get the sound turned down, asap.

Thanks

I've always relied on my ears. There is no magical piece of equipment that is going to make every disc sound great, that is where a good host comes in KNOWING how to dial the song & singer in, in a timely manner, you'll eventually get to know which songs/discs need to be adjusted where & which singer need to be adjusted how. BE a host & don't rely on the technology to do YOUR job!
If you want to get technical that don't really mean anything, you CAn get a decibel meter which is about as close as you are wanting howver it's still only going to be as dependable as the host mixing.

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I think a DB meter is a useful thing.

The ears are very subjective, and the volume you may be hearing after 3 hours of being in a bar is not going to be the same as at the start of the show. Sometimes your ears become de-sensitized and it sounds quieter than it really is, other times our ears become sensitized and it sounds louder.

Not only that, the next night after a loud show (or going to see a rock concert etc) will seem quieter than would otherwise be the case.

Of course there is still a lot of subjectivity and knowledge/experience needed. An experienced DJ can learn to compensate for the fatigue in percieving volume.

A DB meter is also a very good thing to have if you are doing outside gigs in areas subject to potential noise violations. Every one has their own definition of "too loud" but the laws are written in DBs.

I don't use the meter very often at my regular gig, probably have not touched it for months. But for outside shows and new venues it is a good idea.

A decent simple DB meter can be found at Radio Shack for about $40 if I remember correctly.

Thats right, a DB meter ...was in a funk when I posted the question or would have thought of it myself.

BE a host & don't rely on the technology to do YOUR job..., don't have to caps the YOUR like your talking to the kids and let me ask you another question, do You do absolutely everything YOU can to make YOUR show the best it can be for YOUR singers?

Most of what I really want out of the testing is for myself to see which tracks are that much louder than the others as there are some on there and it would be nice to know where I am at with the volume asap until I know every track etc.. I would also like to know the sound level of the music for other reasons.

I don't really host the show but do help out at times as my son and wife do most of the hosting but there is one thing we have always taken great pride in and that is sounding as good as we can and we always have sounded better than anyone else around.

Thanks for the replies

Yes I used my DB meter for identical songs from different Manus, and foud that SGB was about 10db louder in about 80% of the songs I tested. Most of the other manus were in a narrow range within 3-5 db of each other with no noticeable bias of one company being louder or quieter.

This helps as now for SGB songs I start off at -10db vs what I run other companies songs at and adjust by ear from there. Yes this is something I could have learned from experience, but dialing it down to 10db difference would have taken some time (and many too loud or too quiet songs).

I rely on hearing the DB level by ear myself, but if you have a properly balanced system, and a mixer with a master out level meter, then if you always just keep each song in the same level range (typically bouncing slightly between green and yellow), then each song is going to have close to the same amount of energy coming out of the speakers, and pretty close to the same perceived volume by the audience.

If you don't have a balanced system top to bottom (all components), then it is probably worth your time to research and understand how to balance a system. This exercise will make your system sound better than any add-on component you could buy.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Yes knowing your own system is important, and once you know the system and location few adjustments are going to be needed. But a properly balanced system depends on constant inputs (and some manus are variable), and an unchanged location.

But if you are an active KJ you will probably have many opportunities in which you are going to use a house system for speakers or other parts of the sound system. Or you may be moving your own system to rooms of various sizes or outside. In just 3 years of KJing I have used at least 8 different house sound systems plus my own, and run shows in 20 or so locations.

When I drive I don't need to look at the speedometer to know when I am going fast or slow. 99% of the time i just give it a glance and I am going about as fast as I think I am, but that other 1% of the time I make an adjustment, even if it feels like I was going slower or faster than i thought. Sound is the same way. When I am in a different vehicle that I have not driven before (think different system or location) I look at the speedometr more often at least initially.

Having technology is NOT cheating it is just using tools that make your job easier, even if it is just a tool to double check what you are thinking anyway. Usualy the results will be the same, with a tool like a DB meter you can just get there faster.

Any one operating a mixing board should be able to distinguish between a soft music and a loud music by ear. There is no real need to mix just 2 audio sources with the help of an spl meter. The process is just part of balancing the mic level with that of the backing music. why complicate such an easy task.

Now do we need an eq meter to help eq the vocal?

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I walk around with a db meter I bought at Radio Shack. Once I have the mains at the levels I want I come back on the stage and try to get the monitor levels about the same on the meter. That way if I get too busy to walk out front, I have a real good idea what it sounds like out in the crowd.

Another factor in my case is I notice after a few hours my ears become less sensitive and the music starts to sound less loud and I'm tempted to turn it up. The meter lets me confirm what I think I'm hearing. Sometimes my ears play tricks on me. For $40, I think it's one of the best investments you can make in how you sound.

One last thing in my case is my own personal ethics. I don't ever want to expose anyone to anything above 95 dB. At 95 dB a person can listen for 4 hours and not have any hearing loss. Anything above that and you start cutting the exposure time in half for every 3 dB. Most good speakers are capable of at least 110 dB which would cause permanent hearing loss in less than 8 minutes exposure time. I won't play a gig without my meter.

your post describe the proper use of an spl meter; setting spl limit.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

What a great post. I never thought to use a DB Meter before. I'd be curious to see what the levels are for me on an average night. My ear tends to get more tolerant to loud music as the night goes on and bar noise gets louder, so I'll increase volume slowly through the night.

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Sorry for starting this post, I don't really need it that bad just thought that at times the music is a bit off and would like a way to check it besides my hearing.

Some nights when I am just djing for dancing I will think the music is pretty loud and then I will have a few dancers come over and ask to turn it up, not often but at times and I have noticed on the sgb disk they are louder and just wanted a point I could start at that would be closer this way I don't have to make a huge change.

Thanks for all the replies

After a time you will instinctively know which brands are going to be louder. I always leave my fingers on the music volume when it is starting up anyway until I'm sure it's right. Getting out in front once in a while just to confirm volumes is good, too. Go all the way to the back of the room and listen; go to where the most bodies are, and from side to side as well - I have my speakers on stands and find sometimes depending on how the crowd is distributed in the room, it may sound a little better by just turning one or both of the speakers a little. I am always behind the speakers so I never get the full-on blast, hence no reason for ears to get desensitized to volume. Learning to hit it just right comes with time.

An automated solution is possible, so that the KJ doesn't need to grab for the mixer.

As a math guy, I know that it would be a fairly simple matter to write a program to measure the overall loudness of an mp3 file. This could then be corrected for. Long ago, I wrote software for that.

WinAmp has a feature where you can ask it to normalize the volume of all the songs. It does not change the mp3 file, it just adds a bit more or less gain to the song when it plays it back to compensate for loud or quiet CDs.

To do this, you ask WinAmp to look at your whole library. It analyzes each file and jots down the gain that it will use when it plays back each song. Of course, that doesn't help a KJ much, unless you are using WinAmp to play the karaoke songs.

I have used Magix Audio Cleaning Lab to rip albums to mp3 files. They have a feature where you can normalize the volume of an audio file, and then write out the new mp3. This could solve the problem, but it would be very very tedious to load each song in your library into Audio Cleaning Lab, modify them, and write them back out.


So... I ask the question... Is there a need for some way to do this?

This could be a program where you tell it "Here is a directory. Find all the mp3 files and normalize the volume of them. I'm going go to bed now."

Or it could be something built into the karaoke hosting programs. When enabled, it would measure the volume of each song as they are queued up, and then it would adjust the volume that it plays it at.

Is this a need? Or maybe a "gee that'd be nice?" Or maybe just a "I am ok with adjusting the knob when it's necessary".

I use a program "Breakaway" and it does exactly what John just described. It changes the song volume on the fly, and does not change anything permanently. It is amazing how well it works.

http://www.claessonedwards.com/index.ph ... le&id=46&I temid=59

Mrmarog

I put all the filler mp3s that I use in Compuhost into a folder on my desktop, than used a freeware demo program I found to normalize all the songs as a batch process -- I was able to walk away and let it do its thing. It's not perfect, but it definitely helped. I sort of wish now I hadn't chosen to zip my karaoke files or I could do the same thing with the karaoke music.

Here's a link for the program...

http://www.nch.com.au/switch/index.html

I don't have the need that often or I might buy it. It was a pretty decent little suite of programs.

This is pretty much what I do. I have my fingers on the lexicon levels when the song starts, I listen and also watch the meter on my mixer.

Lonnie, you were a little hard on the beaver last night!

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