So you're running an amplfier through another amplifier?.......
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| Whats going wrong https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19835 |
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| Author: | smiler01 [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Whats going wrong |
Hi All When i first started Karaoke i used to only use a Behringer PMP3000 plus a pair of Peavey Pro15 speakers. As i felt i needed a bit more power i purchased a Behringer EP2500 an used my PMP3000 for it's mixer and effects section and i did this by running 2 jacks from the Main 1 Out L/R into the Input 1/2 of the EP2500. Well low and behold a couple of weeks ago both 15" drivers on the Peavey packed up maybe as i was over driving them. So i decided to purchase 2 Behringer B215XL speakers as they were advertised as 1000 watt peak. well guess what happened on saturday while i was doing a wedding both 15" Drivers onthe Behringer packed up. what am i doing wrong or is it the equipment. |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
You abused your speakers, and they gave up the ghost. No surprise there. Since you are going through woofers and not HF drivers or crossover components, I would guess you are expecting way more bass output than you can get from those speakers. I suggest you 1) repair or replace your speakers 2) don't turn your rig up so loud that you damage it 3) buy an entry-level digital crossover with a high-pass filter, e.g. DriveRack PA or DCX2496 4) buy a subwoofer and, if needed, an additional amplifier; you will already own the crossover at this point 5) now you can have more bass without damaging your equipment I have no idea what size venues you are working in, how many guests there are, what kind of volume/bass they expect, etc. so I really can't suggest anything specific to you without knowing more. I have used $1000 worth of speakers in my usual venue and been totally fine, and I have brought in $5000 worth on a record night and then been aggravated with myself for not bringing double the subs. What will work well for you will depend on a lot of things. |
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| Author: | letitrip [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
I'm with Jeff on this, sounds like you're trying to drive those 15" speakers to deliver more low-end than they're capable of. Take a look at the specs for your speakers, one of them is frequency range. The low end of that range is the lowest frequency they're capable of producing, you shouldn't be sending anything to them lower than that. Jeff's suggestion of a cross-over and sub-woofer is the most logical way to do this. Even if you can't get a sub-woofer, you should at least use an EQ (not sure if there's one on your board or not and I don't have time to look right now) to cut everything below your speakers' frequency range. They're not going to be able to reproduce it anyway so sending that signal to it only causes the voice coils to overheat. Hope that's helpful. |
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| Author: | lyquiddye [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
Yes, I feel your problem is you are using cheap speakers and expecting too much from them. |
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| Author: | mckyj57 [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
I'm guessing your EP2500 doesn't have the 50Hz low-cut, or even the 30Hz low-cut filter enabled. Those speakers can't do anything below 50Hz well, though they probably claim 45. The EP2500 is an excellent power match for the PR15. I use it with the PR10 and a PR-Sub, for inside venues for karaoke. I don't know the B215XL, though if it claims 1000 peak/250 continuous it should mean 500 program which is a good match. What else is in your chain? Could you be falling victim to a power-off thump? |
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| Author: | Lonman [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
Agree with Jeff & Tony. Sounds like you had the bass turned up. Might consider adding a separate sub to relieve the mains of the bass responsibility. How are your eq's set on the mixer and eq if you have one. Also do you use anything like a BBE or Aphex? |
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| Author: | twansenne [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
When using the system b4 the woofs locked up, where the clip lite lighting up on any channel? |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
On another "expecting too much bass" note, a friend I cross-rent with often had six Yamaha SW215IV double 15" subwoofers out at his gig this weekend, with four of my MRX525 mid/high cabinets above them. When he came over to bring back the boxes he rented from me, he says, "yeah, I am going to do what you keep saying and buy four of the JBL SRX subs like yours. I blew a driver in one of my Yamahas and the promoter was freaking because I couldn't turn up the low-end on the headline DJ any more." Those Yamahas may be old, but six 2x15s are no slouch. BUT the point I am aiming at here is they are designed to be a "kick drum sub," and don't do much below 50Hz except damage themselves. Your full-range speakers are the same way; they probably produce little useful output below I'd guess 70Hz, so the booming bass energy from modern dance music, not being filtered out by a crossover or "low cut filter," is what is damaging your speakers. You may not be able to hear much of that 30-40Hz bass, but the speaker definitely moves in response to it, and builds up heat, too. |
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| Author: | letitrip [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
jeffsw6 @ Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:37 pm wrote: Those Yamahas may be old, but six 2x15s are no slouch. BUT the point I am aiming at here is they are designed to be a "kick drum sub," and don't do much below 50Hz except damage themselves.
I'm completely confused by this statement. I'm only bringing this up because I think it will benefit everyone here with a little extra knowledge. I've never heard of a specific "kick drum" sub, however if there was such a thing and it didn't go below 50 Hz it'd be worthless. 45Hz is the magic frequency you're seaking with Kick Drum. 45Hz is that thump in your chest frequency that you feel far more than you hear. If your sub-low boxes aren't getting you a decent response at that range, then I wouldn't call them a "kick drum sub". |
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| Author: | jeffsw6 [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
More like 70Hz really. As you mentioned, the reason I refer to them as "kick drum subs" is they are not very useful for good, clean reproduction of other sources such as bass guitar, keyboards, and "dance music" tracks/beats which also have a significant amount of low-frequency content, some of which extends to 30Hz. |
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| Author: | letitrip [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
jeffsw6 @ Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:49 pm wrote: More like 70Hz really. As you mentioned, the reason I refer to them as "kick drum subs" is they are not very useful for good, clean reproduction of other sources such as bass guitar, keyboards, and "dance music" tracks/beats which also have a significant amount of low-frequency content, some of which extends to 30Hz.
Well damn, I'll have to tell those Berklee degreed guys that they've been doing it all wrong the last 35 years, cuz Jeff the DJ says otherwise. 70 Hz is getting pretty high up there and does not deliver a chest felt punch, it's a very audible frequency that gives the ears the thump of the kick drum and may come through the floors. However, 45-50 is where you're going to find the frequency that crushes your chest. Indiana ain't that far, I'd welcome you stopping by the studio anytime for a demonstration of exactly what I'm talking about. Or then again, I've got an outdoor gig coming up in a few weeks with a pretty good sized X-Array deployment, I could show you there too. |
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| Author: | johnny reverb [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
So you're running an amplfier through another amplifier?.......
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| Author: | hiteck [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
johnny reverb @ Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:00 pm wrote: So you're running an amplfier through another amplifier?....... That's what it sounds like Quote: ...i did this by running 2 jacks from the Main 1 Out L/R into the Input 1/2 of the EP2500...
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| Author: | johnny reverb [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
Now I'm just a dummy, but I've always thought that was a good way to fry up all kinds of things...  ....might have blown up a few things that way in my early days, but I'll never tell.....
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| Author: | Lonman [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
johnny reverb @ Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:15 pm wrote: Now I'm just a dummy, but I've always thought that was a good way to fry up all kinds of things... He is connecting the external amp through the pre-amp output on the mixer bypassing the mixers internal amp. So no he is not connecting an amp to another amp.
....might have blown up a few things that way in my early days, but I'll never tell..... |
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| Author: | Bazza [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Whats going wrong |
<ooops wrong topic> 
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