Karaoke Forums

Hi Folks. I'm new here and I've been reading a lot of your threads and I just have to say that your forum is an AMAZING source of information. You all seem very helpful to noobs (Newbies) like me.

I have a few technical questions to ask you since I'm building a system to replace a U-Best DA-168.

If you're not familiar with that product, check it out on http://www.bestmediausa.com

I have the manual if you need more info.

The key for my customer is that he wants a solution where the hard drive can easily be backed up. I.E. a computer solution???

Also, he's fed-up of inputing his CDG titles with a little remote and would rather a keyboard (which the U-Best DA-168 does not yet offer). Again this seems to be pushing us into a Computer based solution.



I'm currently evaluating the Advantages/Disadvantages of 3 of your most popular software choices (From the posts I've seen of what you guys use). MTU's Videohost, Invicion's Compuhost & Tricerasoft Justkaraoke. I'm also considering Tricerasoft's Swift Elite 4.0, Latishawsystems Karma & Unify (http://www.unifykaraoke.com)

I'm not keen on the winamp based solutions; sax & dotty's etc, as I believe that an integrated all in one karaoke player solution is bound to have less longterm problems (from potential software updates) as opposed to these (custom frontends for winamp's backend) solutions. That's why I ruled them out.

However, here are my questions to you: Given that my customer has always benefited from the convenience of a remote control, which of the 3 major players (MTU, Tricerasoft justkaraoke & Compuhost) can be keymapped? Which of these can be controled by a remote controler such as the Snapstream Firefly? http://www.snapstream.com/products/firefly/

Next. I've read on some of your posts that you absolutely need a Mixer for a karaoke system to work. But how about just using a M-Audio Fast track Ultra which has 4 Mic Preamps with individual gain knobs and here's the key point: It has an onbord DSP mixer with effects which they call "MX Core™ DSP technology"
Here are the links: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra.html
A short video Showing how the DSP mixer software working:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RJAPxBWrBY

I like the onboard DSP mixer because it is software based and can be controled by a mouse instead of physically being next to a mixer to mix. Do you this this kind of setup could work???

Also, I'm not clear as to what a sound compressor is and what it does. Is it necessary/important to have in a karaoke rig? Does the M-audio Fast Track Ultra have one?

Looking forward to your help and Answers. Your Canadian Buddy, Deutschauto.

Sorry, I ran out of space on my last post, so I'll continue here...

I'm curious as to which of the 3 Main software players also could be setup so that my customer could setup his show beforehand, press play and let the show run itself while he sings and "schmoozes" with his croud?

Next question (actually getting back to a previous one; ): If you judge that I still should get a physical mixer and not just the M-audio fast track Ultra. Which setup would you recommend? An all in one solution (USB soundcard, Mixer, 4 Preamps, Compressor, Equalizer, Effects Processor) such as the Behringer X1222USB which you mentioned in previous posts http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X1222USB.aspx? Plugged in directly via USB into a desktop (with no sound card). Or plugged into the motherboard soundcard (i.e. why would I need a USB in that case???)

Or

Get a more basic exterior soundcard such as an M-Audio Fast Track Pro and a regular Analog mixer with 4 mic preamps with compressor and FX?

Which setup is better; Reliability, Functionality and sound quality wise?

Please keep in mind that although I'm trying to keep price within $2000 (without the music), this is still going into a home theater (the real thing with theater seats ) that the customer already paid $50000.

This Is why I can't afford to give him an "amateur" setup. And while he is quite computer litterate, I have to keep the setup simple since I'm competing with a U-Best DA-168 with a remote (it doesn't get simpler than that). I'm also hoping to improve his sound quality & give him more functionality with this Computer based setup.

Thanks again for all your help & input in this matter.

Also, here's some food for thought: What if you wanted to remote control your Karaoke Rig from a loptop or even better a touchpad?

If you have a computer at your rig with a wireless router setup, you could use another laptop, use Remote desktop connection to connect to the computer at your rig and control the karaoke hosting software there. Also, if you have the software based mixer found in the M-audio fast track ultra, you could also control your mixing from your remote laptop. Cool Eh?

Or, let's say you don't have a computer with a router at your rig. You could technically run hosting software from the remote laptop and send the audio video feed to the mixer at your rig using the following IO gear GUWAVKIT kit: http://www.iogear.com/product/GUWAVKIT/

So guys tell me if I'm nuts and in dreamland or would these two scenarios be feasible?

Thanks!

I know Compuhost can by means of its AutoPlay feature. (MTU Hoster has that also, I presume, as it did in previous versions.) I also know that with each of those you can map the Stop/Play button to a keyboard character which can then be then operated by remote.

With regard to the mixer setups, I would think it is the usual set of tradeoffs. I like the sound quality of Yamaha or Allen & Heath compared to Behringer, but there is no denying that the Behringer offers a nice package.

The problem with anything but the Behringer is that they don't have the full feature set. The Yamaha MG124CX doesn't have USB. The A&H ZED14 doesn't have compression. The Yamaha MW12 doesn't have effects.

Personally, if you want USB sound I would go with the ZED14. You won't have compression, but the sound quality will be excellent. The only worry is complexity -- sounds like you have a very simple setup right now with just a knob or two. Those mixers are going to be a step up, with many knobs/buttons that can blow up the sound if carelessly set.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

My opinion....
A voice is analog and ears are analog so conversion to digital is pointless. The m-audio recording interface is out.

Behringer makes junk avoid it like the plague (again this is just my opinion.)

The main purpose of using a compressor in a karaoke situation is to avoid damage to other components from excessive and unregulated audio signals i.e. karaoke singers. It's a good idea.

There is no reason not to use a WINAMP based hoster. Once it's installed and running it's just another background process that happens to have it's own GUI.

Hardware always beats software. Hardware is designed to do one thing. Software controls a machine designed to do a zillion things most involving the internet.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Cool. Thanks for the helpful info guys. I appreciate it and I will take all these important pieces of advise into account when I make my decisions. I look forward to hearing from others as well as I believe in most reputable (members of this forum) people's opinions.

I like MTU Hoster personally. It's simple, all in one - rips, plays, makes song books as well without the aid of outside programs for each. Also prefer it only creating one proprietary format (.kma) over a separate mp3 & cdg file that the others all use. I've heard it can also be used with a BlueTooth remote set up to run it, but only heard that from a couple users in the MTU forums - I have no experience in how, I prefer hands on manual mode.

As far as mixer, i'd probably go with Mackie, Allen & Heath or Yamaha. I personally do not like Behringer products at all. Also if you don't get a board with a USB interface built in, look into the Lexicon Alpha for a sound card. Cheap but very high end on sound quality.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Nice, thanks for the info. It seems that there is a general consensus that Behringer is garbage. I wonder why? Is it because it sounds like crap or is it because it's unreliable (breaks down often)? Also, a lot of people suggest Yamaha. I thought they were specialiezed in motorcycles... (just kidding). Any suggestion as to which models? Which models are good all in one solutions? (usb soundcard, FX, 2 Preamp Mics with phantom 48V, compressor & mixer).

I gather an analog method would probably be better sound quality and reliability wise (I would choose that route personnaly), but I'm not sure I can convince my client who likes his remote-control, to spend all his time next to a mixing console... Plus, I might get him really interested if I show him how he could "remotely control" his whole setup with a laptop (or ipad) from a distance. Of course, that would automatically imply a software based mixer.

Any thoughts?

Many people on here have Behringer equipment and are happy with it. I'm perfectly
happy with my 'garbage' UB1832fx mixer. However, I walked into it with my eyes open - I knew it was Chinese made and hadn't got high expectations. I paid peanuts for it though and just use it at home. I'd be careful of recommending Behringer to a customer, cus your reputation is on the line. They make a lot of dubious quality gear, but they have a few hidden gems too.

I've had pretty fair luck with Behringer myself. Their EP2500 and EP1500 amps have a good reputation with a lot of people, and are in use in some pretty high-profile places.

But I find that their mixers don't provide as much noise-free headroom as the other brands, and I don't like their reverbs as much. I am not as big a fan of Mackie as some, but that is mostly my impression of their reverbs which I find cheesy. I like the Yamaha compression and effects for karaoke -- I think it makes the singer sound better. Certainly singers at my show rave about the sound.

Some of the other Behringer products are usable, particularly their speakers and compressors, but in general nowadays I would rather pay the extra increment for a slightly better brand. You'll get it back in resale value if you ever decide to get rid of it.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Thanks for the help guys. I've tried out pretty much all the software and have arrived to the "seemingly" best solutions for this customer. As many of you have said, it's best to try before you settle, since each software has it's respective strengths and advantages. Just pick the features that are the most important to you and it will determine which software is you ideal match.

If you're still looking for a solution for a mixer and have firewire - check out the M-Audio NRV-10.

4 microphones, 2 stereo inputs, effects, 10x10 sound card (firewire), and if you upgrade to the InterFX Pro software you can add up to 6 VST effects per channel. The InterFX software that comes with it has built in compression/limiting/gate/expander...

All in all, it's a very good analog mixer with some pretty advanced features... but alas, it's firewire. Now if they only make a version that was rack mounted, USB, and fit into 5U or less of rack space.

I know you have issues with Winamp based solutions, but autokdj is nothing like anything else.

Pretty much everything your customer wants, autokdj could do. It's internal webserver allows you to browse to the machine and que songs from a remote/web based interface.

Throw in an EMU 1616 PCI and you have some pretty neat capabilities. Reverb, compressors (compressors can keep song volume levels relatively the same) to name a few.