Karaoke Forums

This came up in another thread, and rather than respond and hijack someones thread, I thought i'd start a new thread.

I had said, in regards to software that manages singer rotation:




To which someone replied:



That's somewhat ironic, because one of the reasons *I* got into doing karaoke was because I went to lots of shows that followed strict rotations, even when it meant putting highly conflicting musical styles back to back to back.. and I knew I could do it better.

Of course 'better' is a highly subjective term.

Rotations don't prevent one person from singing more than another at all. In fact, following strict rotations generally result in the early birds singing lots more songs than later arrivals.

In my opinion.. if you're going to be a robot and not 'play the room' and use some creative talent and experience to be a host, then the bar might as well just put in a karaoke jukebox.

We use table rotation: all tables are numbered and one song per table per rotation. never have any problem with it. does not matter who sing from that table or that they do duet or group singing.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I've been to shows where they did that style of music rotation and saw two or three people who got up three times more than one or two singers. It was then I knew that the show host was a poor excuse for one.
A host is there to call people up as entertainingly as possible in the order that they gave you the slip and maintaining that order until the end of the night, tweak the controls on the system to make them sound as good as you can and nothing more.
As Ally bank puts it, it's not nice to treat newcomers as if they don't exist.
The exception to the strict rotation is if a new singer comes in. I place them 5 singers from the start because that's where my ticker cuts out.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I do something similar.. new singers i'll generally bump up to the top of the list, not always right on top.. depends on what they put in, and how it meshes with the next few songs I have up.

That way if a person isn't able to get to the club till 11pm, they still get a shot to sing at least one song before the night is over.

I just tell the late-comers, hey, the show starts at 10pm, and it is unfortunate that the rotation is 20 singers long by the time you get here, but the 20 customers ahead of you have been spending their money on booze for two hours. There is no reason for me to bump someone up just because they didn't arrive until 1am, especially since they may either be already drunk, or not have a ride home and be unable to spend a lot of money before they'd be too drunk to drive.

I do sometimes make exceptions for popular singers, people in cover bands, etc. who are crowd-pleasers; but that's pretty much it.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Our first Host put out a dry erase board with 30 numbered lines, and told people to pick a number and put their name there, #1 usually stayed Blank for 1/2 the night and some people would skip spaces, each singer would give him a slip of paper with their name and 3-5 songs, he kept the rotation and people could sign up at anytime on any available number and be in it, he'd rotate their songs to keep things "blended" it worked well and I now do the same thing, even though our biggest crowd to date has been 7 singers

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"I think people should be allowed to do anything they want. We haven't tried that for a while. Maybe this time it'll work." George Carlin R.I.P (May 12, 1937 – June 22, 2008)

I've heard of a somewhat similar idea in a karaoke book I read... the host would occasionally bump someone up in the rotation to adjust the energy level in the room. It was still a situation where nobody got to sing more than once and I guess he could get away with it.

Personally, I use a sign up sheet and the main reason I do it, is that it's very easy for people to tell you ARE NOT cheating them and also very easy to tell the person who has to sing next, that everybody in the room would know if I cheated on their behalf so I'm sorry I can't do it.

Hopefully your personality and the little jokes you make, any games you play with the crowd and the filler music you choose to play can make some difference in the energy level of the room as well.

Here is how I do it and for over 10 years it works and my customers (singers) like it.

as the night begins, my regulars have already dropped off a slip or slip and their (non-burned) disc. They never know who is going to start off the rotation but it is neb=ver the same person each week unless there is only one singer than I will kick it off with a song myself. I use a log sheet to keep track of the rotation putting names on the list leaving 4 spaces between each name as they are submitted. As the frist rotation proceeds i will just add singers to the end of the list till I am about 10 to 12 singers in. Then when the next person that signes up, I will just simply add their name up at the top after the first singer also leaving a space between their name and the one above. I repeat this all the way down the list. My regular singers love it and know exactly how I do it. No one ever gets skipped and everyone gets to sing. If you come in late you will have to wait like everyone else cause the rotation might be 40 people by that time. Sometimes a last minute singer will walk through the door right before I am shutting down and want to sing, they have to get permission from all the other singers to sing but Never before someone else in the rotation that hasnt sung yet. I have had people give up their spot in the rotation to let someone sing but that is between them but again only at the end of the night.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

I don't understand why someone thinks bumping a person up or down a few positions on a revolution makes anyone sing more or less.

If I have, say 15 singers on deck and 4 of them are country songs, 8 of them are rock songs, and 3 of them are oldies songs, everybody still sings.

I'll just group the different genres together, that's all.

If a guy walks in off the street and turns in a slip, i'll put them in the rotation at the closest spot to the top where his or her song fits so they get at least one chance to sing.

If some fuddy duddy wants to get their panties in a bunch because they might have to wait an extra 3 minutes to sing their 8th song of the night, so a new person gets a chance to sing at least ONE song.. well then they must have missed the lesson in Kindergarten that discussed sharing.

I can totally understand being miffed that a KJ gives other singers 2'fers, or has their friends come up and sing four songs to the average singers one song.. absolutely I can fully understand why a person would be aggravated at that.

But juggling the general rotation + or - 3 or 4 positions to accommodate a new singer, or to group similar styles of music together doesn't 'cheat' anyone out of a chance to sing.

If anything, it makes sure everyone gets at least one chance to sing.. regardless of why they couldn't make it to the bar promptly at 9pm to put in their slip with 14 songs on it.

And for the people who've been there all night and already sung several songs who get mad when a new person gets to come up and sing ONE?

Well shame on you.

Talk about ME not having any manners. Wow.

This has been beaten to death around here, but finally some new information that I can get something from.......

"Chesse"

I like the way you described the way that you handle the rotation. I try to use something similar to this as well. No cheating anyone, actually trying to make it more fair & more fun. No, I don't switch singers around all night, but depending on the rotation, who's up and who's singing what.....they may jump a slot or two to get or keep the mood right! I feel that is part of your job as a host. Just like you don't want to hear 4 Elvis songs in a row, you generally don't want to hear George Jones, then Drowning pool....UNLESS it happens to be time to switch up the mood. THERE IS NO RULES, JUST RIGHT! MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

JR since you feel the need to jump on --below is my original post - I talk about the importance of not skipping a singer entirely in a rotation and having them not wait more than 1 or 2 singers 'IF" the kj made a revision to the rotation. I mistakenly calculated 14 min wait time instead of the more realistic 9 mins. At which point the mick decided to quote the one line and paint a bad picture. ARE YOU TELLING me that if the KJ asked you to wait 9 minutes to sing you would be so upset as not to return????

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I prefer a looser rotation, where you can make some tweaks. The important thing is to keep it fair. Don't have friends and familiy singing more than they should.

I mean if Bruce followed Cheese the 1st 2 rotations --I don't see any problem in switching or inserting a new singer to make a better flow or better keep two slow songs seperated etc. SO what if the singer sings at 9:45 pm instead of 9:36pm.
**corrected times ***

The important thing is they sing and no one gets skipped or have to wait more than 1 or 2 singers than usual.

Fairness and consistency in your rotation will keep you out of trouble !!!

A common misconception among KJ's, the "singers' are NOT your customer, in most cases it's the "venue"! It's the venue that is paying for your services, therefore they are your "customer", singers are your "patrons", quite different. KJ's that focus strictly on their "patrons", with little regard for the needs and expectations of their "customers" (venues) find themselves out of work quite regularly!

One example...
A KJ has a strict "last come, last sing" policy. A potential customer for the venue arrives later in the evening and the KJ places the new potential customer last in a long rotation, meaning that the potential customer can't sing for let's say an hour. RESULT: potential customer turns around and leaves, without spending a dollar with the venue.

Although the subject of "fair rotations" has been debated to the point of ad nauseum, and I really don't wish to resurrect the subject, maybe the "service afforded the customer (venue)" should possibly be considered, I know I do!

I know what you are saying.. but I think we are splitting hairs here.

Singers at a Karaoke show should be customers of the venue. Meaning they should be spending money on something who cares on what ..just spending money.

But it's a 2 ways street ... singers not happy with a venue won't stay for the karaoke and also customers not happy with the karaoke won't stay. It's the KJ's responsibility to makle sure the show keeps singers and non singers happy

I'm more of a strict rotation kind of host. Prefer it as a singer which is why I run it as a host kind of like Danny, this is why I do run it this way. I don't understand the statement , why is this such a bad thing?
I personally believe that if you get to a show early, yes you should be able to sing more often than someone who comes in later.
Say the first rotation everyone gets 1 song in (obviously)
Second rotation everyone in first are on song 2, any new singers on song 1
Third rotation, everyone in first are on 3rd song, new comers from 2nd are on 2nd song, any newcomers this round are on first.
Etc.....No one coming in at a later time should ever have as many songs as someone that has been supporting the bar all night long. Also at some point in the evening, I will make acut off point where I take no more slips from anyone - new or old as I already have enough singers to finish out the evening. If a someone wants to swap out a song they have up, they can do so for their last song.
New singers do get inserted is the only changes made in a round. However no one gets moved up for any reason, if you cannot wait for your spot, i'll gladly hand you back your slip so you can get home to whatever excuse you just said. If you want to push yourself down the list, we will do this there is no impact time to other singers except that some may sing 1 spot quicker.
Song genres stay how the rotation lays them, if it's Sir Mix A Lot to Megadeth to Carrie Underwood to Frank Sinatra - then so be it, it's karaoke, that is the beauty of it, you can hear anything. I am not a dj, there is no need to try to manipulate the rotation to try to groups certain genres IMO (as a singer I could care less, but would notice if the rotation was getting manipulated in such a way & probably would either leave or simply not return to a show that did).
I also play no dance music - karaoke is danceable, if you don't think so, tell all the others dancing that they shouldn't be dancing.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If there was obviously going to be one rotation only, where you got 60 slips (average 15 singers per hour for 4 hour show) handed to you, then yes I might manipulate for energy and run more like a dj since no rotation has been established & no one would be singing anymore than anyone else out of the gate, but this is not a realistic scenerio & would never happen in a weekly club scenerio.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I agree!!!

Rosario

I run a strict rotation, too and really think this is important. Who cares if the songs that follow each other don't "match"? That's the fun of Karaoke! You go from Whitney Houston, to Sugarhill Gang, followed by Creed and then Brad Paisley. Awesome! There's always room for a surprise.

I totally agree with Lonman and actually take it a step further to cater to early birds. I use a first come first serve rotation until I'm up to 20 singers. At 20 I cut the rotation and start over. If I have more than 20 sign ups during the first rotation, I add them to the second rotation like 2 old singers, 1 new, 2 old, 1 new. Simply for the reason that people that partially have been there since I walked in the door and set up should hve more chances to sing, since they are the ones spending the money. I had nights with 50 or more singers. If i would run it strict and don't cut the first rotation, the guy who was there before me has to wait 3 hours to sing his second song, while someone else walks in right before you reach the end of your first 50 people rotation and gets up within 10 minutes... not fair.

Sorry, I just got up. I hope you can follow my "thoughts maze" here.

Lonman.. i'm not saying people who get there promptly at the start time shouldn't sing more total songs than a person who arrives an hour before the place closes.. just saying that a person coming in later should have the chance of getting at least ONE song in.

Otherwise, why would they bother coming in to the bar?

Literally dozens of times over the years when i'm going out with friends and they want to sing karaoke, we can't get out and be there promptly at 9pm when another hosts show starts.. often times, we can't get into a place until 11pm or so.

If we know 'Club A' follows a strict rotation, and 'Club B' makes an effort to get new singers up to the top of the list, thus guaranteeing them a shot at singing at least one song, well.. we're going to 'Club B' every time.

That's a table of 8 or hard drinking singers that won't be coming to a karaoke club if there is little to no chance they'll be able to sing so much as one song.

Now I should also mention that I don't just bump up new arrivals to the top of the rotation, either.

Many times the singer actually HAS been in the club most of the night. It just wasn't until 11 or 12 that they had built up the 'liquid courage' to sing a song.

So here's a case of a patron who HAS been in the club all night.. but he or she may or may not get to sing because they didn't put their slip in earlier.

Now if I haven't completed one full rotation, then of course slips go into the rotation first handed in, first sing.

But when NEW singers hand in a slip after the first rotation, they simply go twards the TOP of the pile rather than the BOTTOM.

The purpose of hiring any entertainment in a club is to draw patrons into that club and keep them spending money throughout the night. Not just draw in an early bird crowd.

I have trouble understanding how it's adventitious for the bars bottom line to dissuade later arrivals by making it difficult, if not impossible, to sing at least one song, while people in the club have already sang multiple times.

I do my rotation exactly like Lonman.(Thanks for that great description!)

So if the late-comers should get just as many songs as the early-comers, then does that mean that at the end of the night I have to tell the people that were there at the beginning that they can no longer sing because I have to let only the later-comers sing so they catch up and have the same number of songs as the early-comers?

OF COURSE the early people will sing more than the late-comers! It's only logical. Get there early and you get to sing more. Come late, and you sing less. What's so wrong about that?

If you can't get 2 touchscreen kiosks, 2 playlist PC's, a KJ machine, and a video streaming machine all working in harmony with one another...

Creative talent and experience are really subjective. While you have your opinion about what makes a fun show, I have *mostly* good reviews on yelp of my show (sans a negative campaign started by one of my competitors)

http://www.yelp.com/biz/7-bamboo-san-jo ... =date_desc

We can argue semantics about how good/bad our shows are but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is the opinion of our customers.

In a market filled with piracy, venues with cheaper drinks, etc I always come out on top because as one reviewer said...

Not only that, they've got a screen that shows when's your turn to sing unlike the other karaoke bars where they seem to have favoritism. Sometimes you turn in your request, and one that comes in late gets his or her turn before yours just because they know the DJ.

How are your yelp reviews cheese?