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Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
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Author:  snowjx [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
Does anyone have experience with Yamaha MSR250? How does it compared with Yamaha MSR400 for Karaoke purpose? Thanks

MSR400 features:
1. Biamp
2. Crossover Frequency 1.6 kHz
3. EEEngine (LF), Class AB (HF)
4. LF: 12" Cone, HF: 1.75" V.C. Compression Driver
5. LF: 225 W/4 Ω HF: 75 W/16 Ω

MSR250 features:
1. Class D Amp
2. Crossover Frequency 4 kHz
3. LF: 10" Cone, HF: 1" V.C. Compression Driver
4. 200 W at 1 kHz. THD=1 %, RL=4 Ω
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anyone has experience with Yamaha MSR250
These are typical Yamaha crap. They are in stock at most Guitar Center retail locations. You can go listen to them and make your own decision.

Note that Yamaha has a new line of powered speakers coming out soon with an FIR-based crossover, an industry-first in any system at this price point, and one that may give them a huge technical and sonic advantage if they get the rest of the box right.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
snowjx @ Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:27 pm wrote:
Does anyone have experience with Yamaha MSR250? How does it compared with Yamaha MSR400 for Karaoke purpose? Thanks

MSR400 features:
1. Biamp
2. Crossover Frequency 1.6 kHz
3. EEEngine (LF), Class AB (HF)
4. LF: 12" Cone, HF: 1.75" V.C. Compression Driver
5. LF: 225 W/4 Ω HF: 75 W/16 Ω

MSR250 features:
1. Class D Amp
2. Crossover Frequency 4 kHz
3. LF: 10" Cone, HF: 1" V.C. Compression Driver
4. 200 W at 1 kHz. THD=1 %, RL=4 Ω

Don't know the speakers, but the first one (MSR400) blows away the other based on spec. I wouldn't consider the MSR250 adequate for any gig outside of a small living room.
Author:  letitrip [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
jeffsw6 @ Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:36 pm wrote:
These are typical Yamaha crap. They are in stock at most Guitar Center retail locations. You can go listen to them and make your own decision.

Note that Yamaha has a new line of powered speakers coming out soon with an FIR-based crossover, an industry-first in any system at this price point, and one that may give them a huge technical and sonic advantage if they get the rest of the box right.


I'd actually be curious to see how much of a difference the brick wall filters really would make in a 2-way SOS system. The real advantages of linear phase response become apparent when using multiple systems in a large coverage area where the transition region between sources introduces error and distortion. I can tell you first hand, the difference it makes is certainly audible. However, having no experience with these types of filters in a small format situation such as the systems we're using for Karaoke, the only thing I have to rely on is the research in which the common theme has been that the changes in phase distortion for a single system are largely insignificant. I suppose the transition region between your left and right speaker may see some benefit in terms of a more uniform radiation pattern but I can't imagine it being the end all be all of speaker design.

That all said, there are other advantages of the DSP's being employed by the DSR's that should be significant. Yamaha generally does not produce garbage, so I'd expect the DSR series will be generally well designed. I'm just not buying the hype that these are going to be somehow far and away better than other active speaker options out there using LR filters.

** OK Returning to regularly scheduled programming **
To the OP, I'm not a real fan of the MSR series in general. The composite cabinets used are pretty much what you'd expect from composite. Noisy, flexible (not good in this case) and not really designed with wave treatment in mind. If you really are focused on the MSR's because of price or whatever, I'd definitely say go with the 400's over the 250's. Power and frequency response alone are reason enough to make the jump.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
letitrip @ Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:47 am wrote:
I'd actually be curious to see how much of a difference the brick wall filters really would make in a 2-way SOS system.

Modern thinking is that accurate phase response may actually be more important to the way we humans perceive sound, than accurate amplitude response (to a point.) I think these Yamaha boxes are the first of many inexpensive powered speakers that will contain FIR-based filters, which allow for outrageous phase and amplitude correction independently, at the expense of silicon and processing delay.

letitrip @ Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:47 am wrote:
Yamaha generally does not produce garbage

I have high hopes that the DSR product line may be a class-leader. This is certainly true of some of their budget products, but I'm not convinced they have any clue how to make a speaker that's worth more than $500. That may be changing, and if so, I look forward to it.
Author:  letitrip [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
jeffsw6 @ Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:56 pm wrote:
Modern thinking is that accurate phase response may actually be more important to the way we humans perceive sound, than accurate amplitude response (to a point.) I think these Yamaha boxes are the first of many inexpensive powered speakers that will contain FIR-based filters, which allow for outrageous phase and amplitude correction independently, at the expense of silicon and processing delay.


I wasn't arguing the importance of phase accuracy, however, as I said before phase errors and distortion that can be corrected by using brick wall filters is by all accounts I've seen and heard, insignificant when you're talking about a single loud speaker system such as our 2 and 3 way SOS boxes.

As far as "modern thinking", beyond the reading, I base much of my understand on a conversation from last year's AES in NY with the guys from Martin Audio (in particular Ambrose Thompson). They had quite a bit of information to share on the research they've done in this arena.
Author:  jeffsw6 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
I suppose we'll see when more of these products start to appear, but Martin has made a commitment to this technology in their new MLA product line, which has more DSP power than any product I'm aware of, and by early accounts, may be a real leap forward in large-scale sound reinforcement. That technology also being inexpensive enough for Yamaha to build it into common speakers for users like us is encouraging to me. :)
Author:  letitrip [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
jeffsw6 @ Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:37 pm wrote:
I suppose we'll see when more of these products start to appear, but Martin has made a commitment to this technology in their new MLA product line, which has more DSP power than any product I'm aware of, and by early accounts, may be a real leap forward in large-scale sound reinforcement. That technology also being inexpensive enough for Yamaha to build it into common speakers for users like us is encouraging to me. :)


Yeah but that's my point, the MLA Line Array benefits greatly from brick wall filtering given it's nature as a line array. A 2-way box on a stick on the other hand, I'm just not convinced it makes that significant of a difference. Now the other DSP technology being introduced as a part of DSR's and other newer systems (regarless of whether they're using FIR or LR filters) does improve their performance to points that I believe are audible. That's where I think the real excitement is in terms of the new generations of portable PA.
Author:  snowjx [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: anyone has experience with Yamaha MSR250
jeffsw6 @ Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:36 pm wrote:
These are typical Yamaha crap. They are in stock at most Guitar Center retail locations. You can go listen to them and make your own decision.


Why are they crap? I didn't find any stock in my city. What I can do is to do on-line search for user reviews.


jeffsw6 @ Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:36 pm wrote:
Note that Yamaha has a new line of powered speakers coming out soon with an FIR-based crossover, an industry-first in any system at this price point, and one that may give them a huge technical and sonic advantage if they get the rest of the box right.


The new line looks too high-end for me. I would expect they will be very pricy.
Author:  snowjx [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
letitrip @ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:47 am wrote:
** OK Returning to regularly scheduled programming **
To the OP, I'm not a real fan of the MSR series in general. The composite cabinets used are pretty much what you'd expect from composite. Noisy, flexible (not good in this case) and not really designed with wave treatment in mind. If you really are focused on the MSR's because of price or whatever, I'd definitely say go with the 400's over the 250's. Power and frequency response alone are reason enough to make the jump.


Yes, for the price and specification, MSR400 looks very good. The problem is that MSR400 weights 23 kg (50.7 lbs.) much more than MSR250 do --- 14.1 kg (31.1 lbs.).

How about the MSR400 comapred to the Mackie SRM350? They are almost at the same price. SRM350 is much smaller and lighter (good), but it is much less powerfull (bad).
Author:  mckyj57 [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
snowjx @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:26 pm wrote:
letitrip @ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:47 am wrote:
** OK Returning to regularly scheduled programming **
To the OP, I'm not a real fan of the MSR series in general. The composite cabinets used are pretty much what you'd expect from composite. Noisy, flexible (not good in this case) and not really designed with wave treatment in mind. If you really are focused on the MSR's because of price or whatever, I'd definitely say go with the 400's over the 250's. Power and frequency response alone are reason enough to make the jump.


Yes, for the price and specification, MSR400 looks very good. The problem is that MSR400 weights 23 kg (50.7 lbs.) much more than MSR250 do --- 14.1 kg (31.1 lbs.).

How about the MSR400 comapred to the Mackie SRM350? They are almost at the same price. SRM350 is much smaller and lighter (good), but it is much less powerfull (bad).

The SRM350 is about as good a 10" mainstream speaker as there is, but it is still 10". Unless you are willing to sacrifice bass -- or buy a sub when you want bass -- you will be happier with a 12" speaker.

You'll undoubtedly hear some people who will argue against that opinion, but I will refer you to your physics textbook and the frequency specs.
Author:  DannyG2006 [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yamaha MSR250 VS MSR400
Not necessarily true I get phenomenal bass out of a pair of 8" speakers. Found them on Ebay when my 10's grew legs and were stolen from me. Still trying to get the theif out of my life.
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