Karaoke Forums

Based on Bab's post, "Learned lesson", I thought it might be interesting to see just how far you would go to to work at a venue. Some of us, would never be caught dead working in a rowdy bar where getting drunk and fighting is the norm.

Before I got into being a KJ, I used to go to a local family type bar/resturant. They did karaoke two nights a week. And in all the years I've gone there, not one fight has ever broke out. And very rarely, did anyone ever get drunk to the point of having to be escourted out. The clientele was nice, friendly and respectful. I made a lot of new friends there. People came there to sing and everyone got along and there was never any problems.

Personally, that's the kind of place I want to work in. I rather be selective and turn down jobs then to put up with the kind of crap that Bab's and many others endure on a regular basis. There are nice places and there are s__t holes. To me, I won't just take any place just for the gig. It's not worth it.

So, what's your take? What are your standards?

Alan

I'm looking to replace two nights a week that I quit recently, for a variety of reasons. I have been asked to work at a number of bars and put them all off because I am holding out for the "dream gig," or at least, something closer to it:
* fair pay
* good entertainment on other nights of the week
* good stage; house lighting a plus; house PA *can be* a plus if it's adequate
* attentive bartenders who want to make money, not stand around smoking or texting
* drug-free place and staff that at least looks and behaves drug-free
* door man / security person who keeps everyone safe
* good drink specials
* on the beach, with free use of company boat every weekend

Okay, so I think that's everything I wish for. I'm holding out for like 80% of that.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Around here you don't have alot of options nor the luxary to pick and choose - if you want to work that is.
I've actually turned down a job only because I know the bar owners from previous experience in the early 90's, they like to drink in the bar when they are off duty and then tend to make decisions while drunk. I saw them fire a bartender at the end of the night because he poured their drink wrong by mistake. When I first worked for them, they always tried to tell me who & when people would be up - that didn't fly. We finally got to a point where it was understood that I was the one running the show - and the pay was decent, just hated being there when they were there. Rather not go through that again.

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Dives aren't an automatic rule out as long as they are pleasant dives. Our present one doesn't tolerate fighting or meth, etc. Females can come in alone.

There are two in the area that seem to suffer from bad management decisions and less than ethical practices. Both have the meth rep. We won't work there.

My new red flag is owner says yes to karaoke and younger bartender wants bands and doesn't put up the flyers, etc. If the staff isn't on the same page and we aren't all working toward success then it doesn't seem to work.

As far as i'm concerned, a potential venue has to meet the following criteria in no particular order:

1. Willing to pay my rate
2. Willing to promote karaoke night in their regular advertising
3. Drink prices must be reasonable
4. Club must be clean and not smell like a moldy basement or like a sewer

I started out years ago taking any job that came down the pike willing to pay my asking rate.. but what I found was that playing the slummy bars just gives you the reputation as the DJ/KJ that plays all the (@$%&#!) bars.. which hurts when the high end clubs start looking for karaoke.

IMO, what separates you from every other person who does KJ/DJ is your reputation.. your 'brand'.

McDonalds could start selling the best prime rib on the planet tomorrow.. but the popular opinion of it is it's still McDonalds.

Get pigeon-holed as the budget KJ or the KJ that plays (@$%&#!) dives, and it's a hard stereotype to break out of.

So I take the reputation of the club into consideration as well.. and i've turned down many offers for just that reason.

I agree with everything you said in your post. The way I look at it is I have a reputation to uphold. I will not let myself be associated with the slime bars. I would rather not work and wait for something that meets my standards comes along then take these rif-raf dive bars. I will not work for any place where there is lewd, rowdy, drunken behavior...where there's fights, and all that craziness.

If you want to set yourself apart from the rest and uphold your reputation which you worked hard to achieve, then you will only work for reputable places.

Alan, first off, when hitting the pavement to look for KJ work, one does not necessarily know whether a Bar is rowdy and has lots of fights or not. Is this something that you've known right away, or you found out after you started working in such a place?

Now, as for me, I haven't worked in many Bars, but I did quit one place after my first night there. It was a rather loud bar, and some of the people appeared to be rowdy, but no fights that I was aware of. I just had an uncomfortable feeling throughout my entire show that night, and I told the Bartender (who had hired me) that I could not do any more shows there because something else had come up in my schedule. I just introduced the Bartender to another fellow KJ (who was willing to take the gig), and they worked things out from there.

My main requirements are available parking in the immediate area and work-space. I need to have (what I feel would be) adequate work-space to set up, and not be set up right at the foot of the Bar where everyone is seated. If the place is too small, I won't even discuss the possibility of me working there. As for being "pegged" for working in Dive Bars, that's not a concern of mine. I work where I can find work (and the conditions there are acceptable to me). I have been to and worked in "Dive Bars," and haven't had a bad experience yet. "Dive Bars" do NOT imply loud and rowdy crowds with fights breaking out every night. If the place is conveniently located, some people from my mailing list will show up. I have had good nights and dead nights... I'm sure many of you have too.

Someone mentioned the cost of drinks at the place being a factor for them working there. Drink prices is something that I can not control. The Bar sets their own prices. If it's too much for people, they just won't come back. If the crowds dwindle down because of that, well, I guess I'm out of a job there.

I work at a Dive for low pay, using my own equipment. I guess I have low standards

My requirements in no particular order:
* Staff that WANTS to have karaoke and realizes it can be a good night tip-wise if they play their cards right.
* Staff that are real servers ... dress and act like they want to be there and serving. (Have worked in more than one place where it was like pulling teeth to get servers to do the job right. I'm not a server but I swear I could do it better.)
* Place has to be CLEAN.
* Should serve "real" food, not just fried stuff.
* A bartender that won't overserve people, and escorts those out who appear from somewhere else where they have been overserved.
* Should be appealing to more than just roving groups of power shot drinkers, and women should feel safe enough that they come unescorted if they wish to.
* A stage preferably, with lights.
* An owner/manager that trusts my ability to do the gig without providing unnecessary and often incorrect input.
* Adequate seating - if a place only seats 24 people, they're not going to make enough in 4 hours to pay me what I ask. At least 60 seats.
* Cooperation from the venue if I think we need to do up the ante - maybe specials, prizes, etc.

I wouldn't say I work in a dive bar. The bar I work in is small, but very nice, and clean.

My normal regulars are very nice. You can't control what comes in the door though.

I had a bad weekend because I had awful new people come in. Sure I agree that some bars are known to be rowdy and have that kind of clientele, but normally I have a nice crowd. Any where there is alcohol served you have the chance of something not so nice happening. Even the nicest of people can get to drunk and do something stupid.

If you have new people coming to your bar on a regular basis your not going to avoid the random a-hole. It's a bar - a public place - no bar is completely absent of possible idiots walking in.

I choose not to work in rowdy bars also. I think I work in a typical bar. Every bar has people who are going to whine because they think they should sing more, there will be arguments, and the random drunk that thinks swearing on the mic makes them look more important.

I understand what your saying, but I also think it is rare a bar will always have everyone acting like they are in church. I can have as many as 40+ singers on a Friday night in a very small bar. Some Fridays you are lucky to get 2 or 3 songs in all night from 9pm-2am. I've been doing this a long time and have gone months without incident, but you can't always expect everyone to behave.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Well I can't say that beyond being paid properly that I have a specific list of requirements, I usually tailor my PA, lighting and other stuff for what the bar can provide. That said, in the spirit of the original question, here are reasons I have turned down or quit gigs at specific venues:

* Not willing to pay my rate (Duh)
* Not willing to set a regular schedule, no advertising, and last minute cancellations
* Bar is not large enough to hold enough people to make my fee affordable
* Not enough room to carve out an area for even the vocal/lyrics monitors
* Inadequate or improperly wired AC (Power is priority #1)
* Bar fights are common
* A patron was stabbed in the street out front
* Venue was too big (Club had a 500 person band room and wanted to do Karaoke on the 60ft wide stage, no way it could fill the room or the stage, just a bad idea).
* Found out from the bar tender that bouncing pay checks wasn't uncommon.

I'm picky, I know it. I have a luxury that this is not my primary job and not even my primary line of business anymore. However, I still take the lessons learned from years of providing production and working with bands. I am flexible to a point and am more willing to be flexible in situations where the client or the club or both are really cool. If I dread doing the gig, I won't do it, that's pretty much my barometer.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I was threatened once, but she was just a little chick.....I told her, I wouldn't have any trouble giving her a good lickin'......she just flipped me the bird, and stormed out with her burley-looking girlfriend, who, I'm lucky, didn't kick my a$$....

I requires cash at the end of every gig. No exceptions. It's the industry standard way of doing it around here. One of my regular gigs originally wanted to pay me monthly by cheque, but I refused. I had heard that he had refused to pay out one of the previous KJs at the end of the month one time. How true it is, I don't know, but a lot of that kind of thing can be avoided by simply requiring payment in cash at the end of every night's work.

I have been by check nearly every show i've ever run. All have asked for a 1099 as well for taxes. Only had problems once with a bad check - only because their deposit didn't hit before I went in to cash. Went back to the club & traded the check for cash. Never had a problem otherwise with a check.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Oh I do too, all my gigs (except private parties) pay me cash only. However, hearing that employee's pay checks are bouncing is a pretty good sign that the club is in hard financial shape and as such time to look elsewhere. I did and a month later they were out of business.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

lmfao! Johnny, you are too much!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I have encountered complete assholes at gorgeous bars and decent, good people at the sh!tholes.

To me, it's not so much the place as the people.

This is exactly my thought. Of course you can try to avoid trouble by not working at what is known as rough places, but there is no guarantee that even a nice place won't bring in undesirables. It is part of the job learning to deal with drunks and jerks.

I'd like to ask this question - Has any KJ on this forum that has done any steady gigs at what is considered nice places ever not had to deal with an undesirable? (I'm talking personal experience from the KJs only.)

Now, those of you that have had to deal with undesirables - Did you quit the next day because of it or did you handle it the best you could and consider it part of the job?

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Amen Brotha, that's my story in a nutshell. I'm learning though, and as my popularity has increased, my rates have increased allowing me to weed out the (@$%&#!) gigs. I'd rather have 1 high end establishment than 2 crappy dives any day.

I seem to get more "undesireables" at the nice places. I have four bars that I do, and two of them are considered "dives". The other two have a more upscale clientele who seem to consider themselves "entitled". To some of them, ANYONE who works at a bar is beneath them, and can be treated accordingly. There can be a-holes anywhere.