Karaoke Forums

I just found out that one of my main competitors has switched to a "digital system." It turns out that they just hook up a laptop to a PA system and connect it to the internet. Whenever a singer comes up and requests a song, they simply play it off of YouTube. Lately, I've had some singers at my show ask me why I can't do the same thing. I tell them that it's patently illegal and I'm not going to risk a fine, and that I'll look for their song on disc for the following week, which of course doesn't satisfy them at all. I spoke to one of the managers at the bar that's doing this, and he told me that since the bar is running the karaoke show (instead of an independent KJ like me) and their ASCAP and BMI dues are paid, that it's perfectly legal for them to use the music this way. That can't be right, can it? And if it is, how am I supposed to compete with a practically infinite library of music?

See YouTube's Terms of Service:

5. Your Use of Content

In addition to the general restrictions above, the following restrictions and conditions apply specifically to your use of Content.

1. The Content on the Service, and the trademarks, service marks and logos ("Marks") on the Service, are owned by or licensed to YouTube, subject to copyright and other intellectual property rights under the law.
2. Content is provided to you AS IS. You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service.

So no. It is not authorized.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

Oops: Read on:

Content is provided to you AS IS. You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content. You shall not copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

One more thing: good luck getting anyone to do anything about it. Your best bet is to go in there and have someone sing a Taylor Swift song. Take video or photographic evidence and then look up the lawsuit that she is currently involved in and send it to her or her representatives.

Here is some info on that lawsuit: http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/19/taylor-sw ... operation/

Otherwise, you are absolutely within your rights to sue the bar yourself. Good luck getting any gigs around town if you do.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

Plus the sound quality alone on most of the videos suck to the point of WHY bother. Plus there is no reliability, often times what is up one day is not available the next due to Youtube being told to take it down to due copyright holder requests. Not to mention the reliability of the internet connections. I know the one at my show isn't always available or overloaded from many using it where it couldn't stream a song if I wanted to. Never had a buffering issue with Youtube?

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I have come across this before ,
I am based in the UK and I was horrified that there were official karaoke manufacturers youtube channels with full videos of the latest songs so I emailed Mr Entertainer and they put water marks on there releases and really listened and acted to the legal KJ's concerns .The versions on their official site now leave no doubt that the audience know that they are not for public performance.

BUT as for individuals putting up ripped illegal versions there is not much you as an individual can do , no agency , no company seems willing to take action in the UK, we don't have a Soundchoice (although I did email them and report one SC karaoke youtube avi using their online web site reporting system and its still on line today and they didn't email me back)

any action you take can seem as your petty and bitter and as TroyVnd27 good luck on getting gigs around town afterwards , its not fair that the good guys are meant to feel this way.

I genuinely feel for you.

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"Your Never Fully dressed without a smile."

To Visit my website Rob Star Entertainments Click the link in my profile

"Strangers are just friend we haven't met yet"

I don't worry about people that do dumb things. It's low quality terrible crap, if people want to hang out in places like this and sing inferior sounding songs be my guest.

I offer my singers if I don't have a song They can buy it right on the spot from SBI or Karaoke version for $3. I eat the few cent charge.

It just goes to show that for all the debate about what bit rate CDG's should be ripped (if at all), what mixer has the best preamp, which speaker is the best, how to EQ the room, what mics to buy, how much better a particular brand of cable might sound like, 99% of the average karaoke crowd could care less.

Some clown with a PA, a laptop, and an internet connection can run a successful show just by pulling up YouTube videos.

Obviously you don't attend karaoke shows.

The shows with better equipment and selection have more steady crowds, better singers, get paid more, and run longer before cancellation. Can you do a show without good stuff? Sure. Can you expect it to last as long? No.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Yeah, different scenerio. Most likely not karaoke aficianado's (or good singers) that go to the place.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Exactly!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

99% ?? I'd like to see the research data for that statistic! I'm betting 99% of Lonnie's crowd wouldn't be migrating to the bar next door if it had such a karaoke system running.

65.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Hmmm, seems like that statistic should be 65.8% now Lonnie

Nope, you're both wrong, it' 3.14%.... oops that's pi.....mmmmm blueberry droooooool.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

You guys are simply out of touch with reality.. or just can't see outside your little bubbles.

Having traveled from coast to coast, from the Canadian border to the Mexican border, and many, ,many places in between, the MAJORITY of shows are not top end high end equipment with premium sound systems.

That's just the fact, jack.

Sure, there are people who are HARD CORE karaoke singers that care what version of a song you have, or what mics you offer, or the brand name on the speakers.. but MOST people who go to hear or participate in karaoke shows just don't care.

The guy hosting a show with YouTube videos is proof.

People go to the 'real' host and complain that he isn't doing the same thing for cripes sake.

I can point to no less than a dozen hosts who use radio shack mics, and MTX speakers and Pyle amps that have VERY SUCCESSFUL shows for over 5 years at the same venue, and always have a full house.

I go into the place and my ears bleed from all the treble.. it just sounds like sh!t.. the mix is bad.. the mics sound like @ss.. the reverb is dimed.. but the place is packed every wednesday and always lots of singers.. because people just don't care.

Same with bands. Several bands playing EVERY WEEKEND for $1,000 a night.. premium money in any market for a 4 hour show.. and they SUCK.. BAD.

But they play the 80's dance music the girls want to hear and they have a solid following.

I'm not saying use that as an excuse to have crappy sound.. i'm just saying for a person to say that crappy sound is going to prevent a person from being successful in general is far from what actually happens all around us.. every day.

Just like the girls dancing in the front row don't notice if your guitar says Gibson on the headstock or Epiphone.. nor do they notice the tone difference between a Pod XT Live pedal or a real 1966 Twin Reverb driven by a TS808.. or a Gorilla amp mic'ed with a cheap Radio Shack mic.

I have corded SM58's available.. nobody wants them. They all want to sing in the cheapo Nady DUO's.

I am not alone.

The reason most of the KJ's running the successful, crappy sound shows aren't represented here is because they just don't care enough to sit around in between shows to talk about it on the internet.. or they just lurk here and laugh at the people who get their panties in a bunch when a strict rotation isn't followed, or people who think in most real world bars across the country, all this high end equipment is required to play a show in a bar that seats 100 people or less.

I believe you are out of touch with reality. Are there crappy shows out there, and do they have fun? Sure, all the time. Are they usually long-running and packed every weekend? No. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't *usually* happen. The crappy shows run good for a while, then people get tired of them and move on. DJs usually don't last a long time either.

I have tracked shows in three metro areas for years. I know the shows that last and the ones that don't. The common thread on the ones that last is high quality in several aspects. It might be good speakers, good sound work, good selection, good mics, or good hosting. Usually a combination of several of those, rarely all at the same time.

If the crowd is the major feature, and not the show, then the crowd can go anywhere. Crowds are fickle. If you don't have something that will keep them coming back, they will go on to the next thing.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

The general public are not hard core karaokephilles they often have never heard a good system and have no point of reference , a few years ago hifi and audiophilles were everywhere , hi fi separates were a big seller now most people have a budget system with poor speakers ..check out the sales figures and AV stores , the specialist hi fi store is on a massive decline.

most kids have never heard a decent system , they constantly hear sound through mobile phones and headphones from low bit rate mp3s. In car audio is dominated by over the top boomy bass systems (there are exceptions to all of this) but the vast majority of people have now worse audio systems than they had ten years ago.

In our sector karaoke in the UK ...booze is the fuel for singers and your hardly the best judge of something when your drunk.

BUT does this mean I wont strive to make my show high quality and use high quality sources and equipment ..Hell No! I will just get on with what I do but also know that many will not appreciate my efforts , sound or facilities , having self pride and being conscience give there own satisfaction.

Will it mean I give up on trying to stop people hosting shows illegally with illegal material again No , I will fight the good fight, so its all fair as it can be in the real world, which is often not fair,

I work on my own unique selling points and not try to worry or get too obsessed about what others may be doing.

I am also a little surprised about the comments you won't get as good singers at such shows as if karaoke is about good singing , I personally don't like shows where you feel as a singer that your in a competition.. for me its about enjoying yourself.
I have been to venues like that , I have done comps etc. and the off stage bitching and snideness can get out of hand , at these youtube shows I am betting, as they don't take it too seriously that there is less of that sort of shenanigans and maybe why some people walk down the street to such a venue.

There are reasons people frequent different places and sometimes as hosts we don't want to here the truth that it may be something we are doing or orchestrating either knowingly or unknowingly.

So as you can tell while i personally hate youtube karaoke venues i understand the differences that make some singers not care.

Its the venues and the hosts that should act within the law and i have a grievance with but from a singers point of view i can see why they don't care and see the venue that gets the song they want available for them to sing no matter how bad it may or may not sound as one they will go to as opposed to one who can't.

If I have a reliable connection I will LEGALLY download a track at a gig or if not i will buy it for next time , this over the years has gotten me a loyal following.

BUT while I personally care about the sound of my gear, I know most people don't , I also know I am a good host without the safety blanket of good gear and that I can host a show with rubbish gear as I have done that years ago in absolute dives of pubs and at those venues if you were rubbish they told you so ,believe me!

In my opinion as a host you have to have a combination of factors

having all the gear and no idea ..yes I have seen plenty of them buy all the toys and then go out of business

Rubbish gear and nothing about them ...seen those fall by the wayside even quicker

But people with drive , personality and with good people skills they can host shows with good or bad equipment and with i am sorry to say dodgy media or legally sourced high quality media and the public will flock to shows with hosts that have that certain something about them that x factor.

Getting back on topic I can envisage a Karaoke manufacturer setting up a subscription based high quality streaming service so you have every song currently available in the future, the technology exists already.

I will continue to as I run a business and these are my competitors still fight within the law against those hosts and venues who use youtube videos ..but I wont look down on the singers that frequent these venues as I want them to be mine one day!

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"Your Never Fully dressed without a smile."

To Visit my website Rob Star Entertainments Click the link in my profile

"Strangers are just friend we haven't met yet"

I have to disagree with you folks who are all about the sound. Most people don't sing. They can't keep time, don't have the ability to discriminate minute frequency differences, can't tell mild distortion, and that's when they're stone cold sober. Karaoke is just a release from whatever is bothering them in their day to day lives. It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end.

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Okay, who took my pants?