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Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
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Author:  viet78 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Hello karaoke people,

I'm confuse over 2 karaoke setups.

My living room space is very small and I only have room for 1 set of floor standing speakers. Can i use PA speaker for HT system? I would like to incorporate my HT (Home Theater) system with a simple karaoke laptop setup for a party of 4 to 8.

The only thing I have right now is a HDTV, 10yr old home reciever Sony STR-D615, and laptop.

I am confuse between these two setups and I'm afraid that the live vocals will blow the HT speakers. Should I use PA system? But I really like the KRK 8 that i heard at my friend's house alot too.

I am on a budget and was trying to spend $700 to $800 for the best sound i can get.

1st setup:

- 2 mics for $200 - Shure sm58 (Are there quality wired-mics for $50?)

- Mixer for $50 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fostex-VM04-Dig ... a70aef005I
I think the ebay mixer has effects too or as poster "mckyj57" recommend Yamaha MG124CX for $160.

- Speakers - 2 KRK Rokit 8 because i like the vocal sound from it. ($400 for pair)
and used HT speaker like Polk Audio Monitor 60 ($260 for pair) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6882290206
(I was planning to play vocal on the KRK 8 and only instrument on the home speaker bc i'm afraid that the live vocal will blow the Polk).

How would i go about splitting the vocal and music from songs using the KRK 8 and Polk 60?

I remember a friend blowing their receiver and speakers a few years ago at a karaoke party using a HT speaker for live vocals and I don't want it to happen to me too.
Is their anything i can put between the speaker and mic to prevent the speakers from being blown or using mic SM58 will help?

I'm probably at $900 right now and over budget.


2nd setup:

I was planning to use PA speaker to watch movies but don't think it will work. The PA vocal quality was not good as the KRK 8. I think the sound quality of PA speaker hooked up to play movies on dvd would sound bad compare to the Polk HT speaker.

If i go the PA route, I would probably buy a pair of MTX TP1200 ($250 a pair) or two Harbinger Aps15 ($300 a pair) - http://www.guitarcenter.com/Harbinger-A ... e=4WWRWXGB

Hope yall can help,

Viet
Author:  kjathena [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
you will want to put a compressor/limiter between the mixer output and the amplifier input...unless you have a karaoke mixer amp with a return. This will help to prevent blowing your speakers and amp
Author:  kjathena [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Viet

I design pro audio systems for each of the venues that I serve. I also design home karaoke systems for people who want them. With all of the options available, this can be a pretty confusing proposition.

I guess that the first question you should ask is what you want your system to do. From what I read, it seems that you want to keep the home theater sound quality but also want to enjoy home karaoke without fear of damaging your equipment.

What will accomplish this? First, think in terms of parallel preamp systems. Leaving your home theater configuration as it is, so that you can continue to have high quality sound for your movies is advisable. But by installing an audio video switch between your amplifier and your signal outputs or using empty rca inputs on your home theater system (if available) will allow you to add a karaoke preamp circuit to the system without adding another set of speakers and amp.

But to be safe, you will have to install an audio compressor/limiter between the outputs of your karaoke mixer and the switch inputs. By properly adjusting the settings on the compressor/limiter you can keep the signal spikes from loud singers or loud recordings from entering your amp without losing volume on softer signals.

Remember, the heart of a karaoke system is in the mixer. I really think that the best overall mixer for the money is the Mackie Pro FX-12. It has all the same internal components as the top of the line mixers plus 32 bit reberbs and delays that work well with karaoke. It also has a usb port for recording and integration with computers. It is available at musiciansfriend.com for $280. Other cheaper mixers will also help but offer less quality.

Microphones are available at a wide range of prices. My favorite mics are the SM58's and the senheiser E835 for quality, durability and price. Electro-Voice also makes good mics at lower prices.

Audio video switches (if needed) are generally available in 2 formats -- mechanical and electronic. Electronic switches are usually preferable because they have no moving parts to wear down or lose connectivity.

Compressor/Limiters are available in many models. Two channel models are simpler to install and cost less. I like DBX models but many more will do. I try to find the ones that have simple to understand controls. Reading the manual should make adjustment easy. In general the ratio setting should be around 3:1, the threshold should be set around -5 and the output should not be higher than 0. The limiter should be set at around +5. This should protect the home theater system from harm.

I hope these suggestions will be helpful.

(dictated by kjFlorida)
Author:  bgood [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Viet, you are looking at the wrong kind of mixer. The 2 you asked about are both recording mixers, http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMMG82CX would work perfectly for what you want as it has built in compression.

For good mics under $50, try http://www.zzounds.com/item--SHUSM48.

Good luck.
Author:  viet78 [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Hello kjathena and bgood,

Thank you for leading me in the correct direction. Initially, I thought I would have to stack the KRK 8 vocal speaker on top of the floor standing speaker. Now with an audio compressor, I can just use one set of floor speakers.

I hope the Yamaha MG82CX is sufficient enough for my use and provides enough protection to the speaker because it has a built in compressor. Does the Yamaha MG82CX provide enough protection or i will need the dbx compressor like you said?

So if I use a Mackie ProFX8 like you recommended, I would probably need to get another part like the audio compressor too and it would double my cost to $340. http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACPROFX8 & http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... compressor
Some say the behringer mdx2600 is not a good compressor for vocals, but the "dbx 266XS" compressor is durable but not good at compressing vocals too? Is the compressor dbx 266xs sufficient?

Is the setup A or B better:

Setup A) my version of your setup,
1. laptop audio-out to mixer audio-in
2. receiver audio-out to compressor audio-in (where to place switch)
3. compressor audio-out to mixer audio-in (does placing the compressor here protects the microphone vocals from going into the speaker here and not the receiver?)
4. mixer audio-out to speaker

5. Do i install the audio/video switch between the receiver and mixer or before the receiver? I don't know where to place the switch too. Can u send me to a website where i can buy the audio/video switch and how do they look like? So everytime I watch my movies, do I need to turn on my mixer too? I don't understand what you said below:

kjathena wrote:
Viet

But by installing an audio video switch between your amplifier and your signal outputs or using empty rca inputs on your home theater system (if available) will allow you to add a karaoke preamp circuit to the system without adding another set of speakers and amp.

But to be safe, you will have to install an audio compressor/limiter between the outputs of your karaoke mixer and the switch inputs. By properly adjusting the settings on the compressor/limiter you can keep the signal spikes from loud singers or loud recordings from entering your amp without losing volume on softer signals.

Audio video switches (if needed) are generally available in 2 formats -- mechanical and electronic. Electronic switches are usually preferable because they have no moving parts to wear down or lose connectivity.

In general the ratio setting should be around 3:1, the threshold should be set around -5 and the output should not be higher than 0. The limiter should be set at around +5. This should protect the home theater system from harm.

I hope these suggestions will be helpful.

(dictated by kjFlorida)
Hello kjathena and bgood,

When you said this should protect the home theater system form harm, this means the compressor should be place before the mixer not the receiver? So it will only protect the speaker.


Setup B) similar to setup A but without the compressor if the Yamaha MG82CX built-in compressor is sufficient enough to protect the reciever and 2 speakers.


Sincerely,

Viet
Author:  viet78 [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Maybe this would be better?

Setup A with compressor:

1. laptop audio-out to mixer audio-in
2. mixer audio-out to compressor audio-in
3. compressor audio-out to receiver audio-in (you said to put the a/v switch between the receiver and speakers but my speakers would be wired from my receiver?) So when i watch DVD movies now, I wouldn't have to turn on my mixer and compressor? Right?
4. finally, the receiver audio-out to speakers.

Setup B without a compressor if I can use the built-in compressor on the mixer:

1. laptop audio-out to mixer audio-in
2. mixer audio-out to reciever audio-in (keeping in mind that the mixer will protect the amp & speakers from my microphone)
3. use receiver audio-out to speakers.

I'm going crazy. :)

Viet
Author:  bgood [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Hey Viet,
The compressor on the Yamaha mixer I linked to is built-in and on the first 2 channels (the yellow knobs are used to adjust this) where your mics would plug in. For home karaoke you would set up as follows:
1) Mics into channels 1 and 2 on the mixer.
2) Audio out from the computer via headphone jack. The cable would be a 1/8" Stereo mini plug (male) to a dual 1/4" plugs (male). This would come out of the computers headphone jack and plug into channel 3/4, left and right marked "Line" (the 2 holes just under the XLR plug marked "Mic").
3) L/R 1/4" male plugs to stereo RCA plugs from the "Stereo Out" plugs into the RCA "Accessory In" on your HT Amplifier.
4) VGA out from the computer to VGA in on your TV.

Use the mixer to adjust levels on the mics and the audio from the computer and then it all goes in together from the mixer to your HT amp.

Hope that helps.
Author:  viet78 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Thanks bgood,

Would you turn the yellow knobs 1/2 way for the built-in compressor?

I read on another forum that using an additional compressor may provide a better vocal sounds going into the speakers or would it just help with studio recording their music. Do you think this compressor will help my system: http://www.zzounds.com/item--DBX266XSV

If so, where would i install the compressor? between the mixer output and receiver audio-in?

Some say the built-in compressor for the MG82CX is not enough. Do you think I would need an additional compressor?

Lastly, Would the voice sound of the Shure SM48 be sufficient or would the SM58 be twice as clear in sound?

Thank you so much :) ,

Viet
Author:  Lisah [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
Saw the question about mics for $50.. while Shure's are the best! I bought a set of 3 Behringer wired mic's for $60 at MusicialsFriend.com and used them 4 nights per week in public karaoke shows for at least 4 years. These mics (I'm pretty sure they were XM8500's) have been dropped I can't tell you how many times and they still sound great and look great. I will never understand why Shure doesn't make their screens a little more 'dent proof'! I have noticed that the Behringer's 8500's are no longer for sale at MusiciansFriend.. but I've seen them on Ebay. Behringer has probably discontinued them. Sad.. they are excellent for the average user.. karaoke... though I would stick with the Shure for recording and live band performance.

I've moved on the wireless mics.. but the Behringer's are still in great shape and I don't hesitate using them for private parties etc.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Confuse over 2 karaoke setups?
viet78 wrote:
Hello kjathena and bgood,

Thank you for leading me in the correct direction. Initially, I thought I would have to stack the KRK 8 vocal speaker on top of the floor standing speaker. Now with an audio compressor, I can just use one set of floor speakers.

I think it is bad advice to send vocals through home theater speakers, but it's your funeral.
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