Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Recording performances

Notwithstanding the foregoing, nothing in this Agreement is intended to prohibit you
from uploading and streaming via the Internet an audiovisual recording of a patron singing along
to the Content. You are responsible for obtaining any necessary permissions from third-party
rights holders if you choose to upload and stream such a recording.

Other than the legalities - copyright infringement.
I have done it in the past when I didn't know any better.

It never even occurred to me there would be legal issues. I'm new to this. I've DJ'd parties and dances for years, but I'm just now branching into karaoke and have my first show coming up in two weeks. The karaoke player I bought has the ability to record a singers performance to a flash drive or SD card so i can move it to my laptop and burn a CD for them to take home. I planned on selling this for a few bucks to make a little extra money. Like I said, it never even occurred to me this could be a problem.

Is this something I could actually get in trouble doing, or is it more like jaywalking that's technically illegal, but everyone does it and no one cares?

Thanks.

fisk wrote:

You could get in trouble if the right entity happened upon it. Especially if your club is not paying their yearly PRO fees (ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), these entities would be the ones that would most likely file a stink - i've seen it done around here which is what made me quit in the first place.

fisk wrote:

What if someone films with their own video camera and posts it to something like YouTube? Because I know there is video of me out there... Then again, I didn't post it or film it, right? I'm just the guy singing badly. Am I in the clear?

Lonman wrote:

Seen what done? The recording or someone filing "a stink?"

I've never.... EVER.... seen ASCAP or anyone else file any kind of action against a KJ for recording anything, anywhere.

Can you give us at least one example?

Author:	simpmech [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Recording performances
How many of you will or will not do this for your singers?? I have a few that would like a cd made of their performances, for their personal use to enjoy. Any issues with this?

Author:	Lonman [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Other than the legalities - copyright infringement. I have done it in the past when I didn't know any better.

Author:	simpmech [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
I wondered about that, if it was labeled for private use only etc. too bad, a nice thing for people to have.

Author:	mightywiz [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
you can do it, just dont sell it to them for profit. record it and give it to them for free...... probably not legal, but the irs won't come after you for not paying taxes on the profitable income.

Author:	Lonman [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
The difference would be between them recording it themselves for private, and a commercial show is that they didn't supply the music, the show did.

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Recording performances https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25381	Page 1 of 2

Author:	earthling12357 [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
If you are offering this as an amenity to your show, then you are profiting from it and the fact that it is for the personal use of the patron who did or did not pay you directly is irrelevant. You can obtain a license to make small quantities of CDs from the Harry Fox Agency for about $15 per song (plus 10 cents royalty per copy per song). You would also need permission from the creator of the cover version of the track. If you are a gem set licensee, they sort-of grant that permission in your license agreement although it only mentions streaming... Quote: Notwithstanding the foregoing, nothing in this Agreement is intended to prohibit you from uploading and streaming via the Internet an audiovisual recording of a patron singing along to the Content. You are responsible for obtaining any necessary permissions from third-party rights holders if you choose to upload and stream such a recording. If you plan to make a video of the performance, then you would need to contact the publisher of the song to aquire the sync license. Perhaps the easiest way to do it and be completely legal about the whole thing, would be to choose a handful of songs, get the licensing and permissions together for those songs ahead of time and offer only those songs as the ones available to be recorded. That way the cost will be lower. After the licensing fee is paid you only pay the royalty for each copy you make (or plan to make). Cheaper yet, would be to offer it using only those filler songs that are in the public domain (no licensing needed), then you would only need permission from the manufacturer of the track (if even that).

Author:	JoeChartreuse [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Lonman wrote: Other than the legalities - copyright infringement. I have done it in the past when I didn't know any better. Agreed, and did the same thing. Only back then the recording was on a cassette. Don't know if anyone is enforcing, but the fact that there was a legal issue at all was enough for me to stop doing it.

Author:	johnny reverb [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Harry gives you a license to cover a song, but does that cover, using a karaoke manufacturer's instrumental reconstruction of the song?..........just my opinion......I'd say no.

Author:	fisk [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
It never even occurred to me there would be legal issues. I'm new to this. I've DJ'd parties and dances for years, but I'm just now branching into karaoke and have my first show coming up in two weeks. The karaoke player I bought has the ability to record a singers performance to a flash drive or SD card so i can move it to my laptop and burn a CD for them to take home. I planned on selling this for a few bucks to make a little extra money. Like I said, it never even occurred to me this could be a problem. Is this something I could actually get in trouble doing, or is it more like jaywalking that's technically illegal, but everyone does it and no one cares? Thanks.

Author:	Lonman [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
fisk wrote: It never even occurred to me there would be legal issues. I'm new to this. I've DJ'd parties and dances for years, but I'm just now branching into karaoke and have my first show coming up in two weeks. The karaoke player I bought has the ability to record a singers performance to a flash drive or SD card so i can move it to my laptop and burn a CD for them to take home. I planned on selling this for a few bucks to make a little extra money. Like I said, it never even occurred to me this could be a problem. Is this something I could actually get in trouble doing, or is it more like jaywalking that's technically illegal, but everyone does it and no one cares? Thanks. You could get in trouble if the right entity happened upon it. Especially if your club is not paying their yearly PRO fees (ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), these entities would be the ones that would most likely file a stink - i've seen it done around here which is what made me quit in the first place.

Author:	JoeChartreuse [ Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Lonman wrote: fisk wrote: It never even occurred to me there would be legal issues. I'm new to this. I've DJ'd parties and dances for years, but I'm just now branching into karaoke and have my first show coming up in two weeks. The karaoke player I bought has the ability to record a singers performance to a flash drive or SD card so i can move it to my laptop and burn a CD for them to take home. I planned on selling this for a few bucks to make a little extra money. Like I said, it never even occurred to me this could be a problem. Is this something I could actually get in trouble doing, or is it more like jaywalking that's technically illegal, but everyone does it and no one cares? Thanks. You could get in trouble if the right entity happened upon it. Especially if your club is not paying their yearly PRO fees (ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), these entities would be the ones that would most likely file a stink - i've seen it done around here which is what made me quit in the first place. Though I completely agee with Lon's statement, I would add a clarification. The statement definitely applies if you get caught in the process. However, once the singer brings the tape....er,....disc home, no one will bug them. It's all about limiting PROFESSIONAL liability, and as such, it's not a good idea for the host.

Author:	Kuelman1 [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
I have been asked a few times to make people a copy but have always politely declined. These days people just whip out thier phones and record thier own video.

Author:	NoShameKaraoke [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
What if someone films with their own video camera and posts it to something like YouTube? Because I know there is video of me out there... Then again, I didn't post it or film it, right? I'm just the guy singing badly. Am I in the clear?

Author:	JoeChartreuse [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Under those circumstance, you are. He who posted could get heat, but it all depends if the proper entity sees it or not. BTW- that's a seriously kick-a$$ shirt, my friend. Nice job....

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Author:	NoShameKaraoke [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Thanks! It's our stupid karaoke team. It's kind of pointless because we live in the sticks, so there is no "rival team." But it is fun on road trips when we all roll up together in matching jerseys.

Author:	Smoothedge69 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Lonman wrote: fisk wrote: It never even occurred to me there would be legal issues. I'm new to this. I've DJ'd parties and dances for years, but I'm just now branching into karaoke and have my first show coming up in two weeks. The karaoke player I bought has the ability to record a singers performance to a flash drive or SD card so i can move it to my laptop and burn a CD for them to take home. I planned on selling this for a few bucks to make a little extra money. Like I said, it never even occurred to me this could be a problem. Is this something I could actually get in trouble doing, or is it more like jaywalking that's technically illegal, but everyone does it and no one cares? Thanks. You could get in trouble if the right entity happened upon it. Especially if your club is not paying their yearly PRO fees (ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), these entities would be the ones that would most likely file a stink - i've seen it done around here which is what made me quit in the first place. You're in Seattle, aren't you?? That is like the heart of American music nowadays. That is why you get bothered all the time with this nonsense. If a guy is in a rural area, far removed from the mainstream, there should be no problem with recording performances for customers. I used to go to a place on Long Island that would do that, and they NEVER had trouble over it.

Author:	c. staley [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
Lonman wrote: You could get in trouble if the right entity happened upon it. Especially if your club is not paying their yearly PRO fees (ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), these entities would be the ones that would most likely file a stink - i've seen it done around here which is what made me quit in the first place. Seen what done? The recording or someone filing "a stink?" I've never.... EVER.... seen ASCAP or anyone else file any kind of action against a KJ for recording anything, anywhere. Can you give us at least one example?

Author:	johnny reverb [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
NoShameKaraoke wrote: What if someone films with their own video camera and posts it to something like YouTube? Because I know there is video of me out there... Then again, I didn't post it or film it, right? I'm just the guy singing badly. Am I in the clear? I post on youtube, and youtube has notified me, that it has been brought to their attention, that some of my videos may contain copyrited material. They say, nothing has to be done on my part, until they get some serious complaints/action about the videos. Some have been on for about 2 years with this warning. You can actually make money on youtube with advertising banners, which I have been offered, but will always decline because of such material. I think it makes a difference, since I don't make any money, but youtube does make money from the site. There must be a billion or so videos on youtube which use karaoke, music, logos....etc....that are copyrited. To this date, I've never been asked to remove a video, and that would be the first step, when someone puts their foot down.

Author:	Lonman [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Recording performances
c. staley wrote: Lonman wrote: You could get in trouble if the right entity happened upon it. Especially if your club is not paying their yearly PRO fees (ASCAP/BMI/SESAC), these entities would be the ones that would most likely file a stink - i've seen it done around here which is what made me quit in the first place. Seen what done? The recording or someone filing "a stink?" I've never.... EVER.... seen ASCAP or anyone else file any kind of action against a KJ for recording anything, anywhere. Can you give us at least one example? There was a lawsuit against a bar and kj in Eastern Washington by ASCAP or BMI a while back but that was for using copied discs. A club I worked at in 95 had to shut down all entertainment for two weeks while they worked out a deal which included retro active payments. The club I work at now never thought they needed to pay, but were hounded for 2 years and finally received a letter of intent to sue from ASCAP. They've paid all 3 since 96.