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Asking a Singer Not to return
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Author:  simpmech [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Asking a Singer Not to return
Had the displeasure of the Hotel/bar owner asking me to get the phone # of one of our guest. Let me give you a little background here

This man does NOT spend $$$, he is a water drinker.
Yes he can sing pretty well, but loves the oldies but goodies (I enjoy these as well, but no the majority in this establishment)
When rotation is low (seems to be lately) he sings quite a bit due to this....which annoys others.

I had personally witnessed over the past several weeks a table of two of customers leave when he started his singing. These were paying customers, drinks and food
Word spread to the bartender, the front desk of the hotel and finally management and the owners. I was told to get is number so they could ask him not to return, I declined their request in lieu of me personally speaking to him as I am the face he knows there. It was uncomfortable but I explained it and he was amicable. But my fear is in our small community he is going to obviously speak of this and our already small and diminishing crowd will lessen even more.
Anyone ever deal with a similar experience as a host??
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
I am wondering, where are all your people going?? Who is picking up your business? They must be getting their karaoke fix elsewhere. And why are they leaving? I know I never stopped going to a venue because of a freeloader, or because of someone singing stuff I didn't like. I wouldn't be able to go anywhere, then, because I am not a country fan.
Author:  simpmech [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
The businesses around here are all suffering right now, its not just our place that over all cash flow is down. This happens to be a hotel bar so some of them just go back to their rooms etc. Not all are singers, but there to relax after work etc. So this guy has actually been a thorn in their sides by NOT being able to enjoy drinks and relax. Little different situation in that its a hotel bar
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
simpmech wrote:
The businesses around here are all suffering right now, its not just our place that over all cash flow is down. This happens to be a hotel bar so some of them just go back to their rooms etc. Not all are singers, but there to relax after work etc. So this guy has actually been a thorn in their sides by NOT being able to enjoy drinks and relax. Little different situation in that its a hotel bar

I do a hotel bar, too. That show has never taken off because of the reputation of the place. Meanwhile, I do a show right up the block that is awesome, and fun and full of life.
Author:  twansenne [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
Had a similar situation at one of our now bimonthly gigs....


Have a guy, sings like William Shatner on methadone, he has some mental issues. He does buy 2-3 drinks when he is out.

The crowd kinda gets a kick out of him (sometimes).

Bar manager asked us not to let him sing so much, not sure if she was serious.

Told the bar manager we don't discriminate, we let anyone sing no matter how crappy, and in fact that is why I started hosting cause if I didn't I would never get to sing cause I suck so bad. Tried to make light of it.

He kept "singing" as much as anyone else can, bar manager has never brought it up again.

Bar manager mus not have had a problem with it. At that time we were only doing shows once a month, she has now upped it to twice a month.

IMHO....and if it ever comes down to it.....
If asked to limit/eliminate someone from singing, it will be up to the bar owner/manager to tell the person.

So to the OP...if all they want you to do is get the PH#, see if you can get it for them, and let them be the bad guys.
Author:  Bazza [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
twansenne wrote:
If asked to limit/eliminate someone from singing, it will be up to the bar owner/manager to tell the person.


THIS.

I appreciate you wanting to be the one to have a face-to-face and all, but that makes YOU the guy kicking him out and YOU will be the guy he remembers. I let the owner be the one to ban people from his bar. I prefer to stay Switzerland.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
I will only ask a singer not to return if:

1) He/She abuses my equipment

or

2) Behaves inappropriately on mic or toward other singers

If managaement has issues with spending or singing style, it's up to them to do their own dirty work.

Many of my patrons frequent my shows at other venues, and causing friction due to one venue's opinions can cost me customers elsewhere.

Exception: A lone non-spender ( not a central part of a group, or an energizing addition to the show) who makes a habit of it. I still won't ban directly, but have other wys to encourage said person to go elsewhere.
Author:  SwingcatKurt [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
Just tell them you/bar staff is getting customer complaints about him and he will have to leave because of it. Simple, direct and easy to understand. End of problem.
Author:  Cueball [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
SwingcatKurt wrote:
Just tell them you/bar staff is getting customer complaints about him and he will have to leave because of it. Simple, direct and easy to understand. End of problem.
I disagree.... IF that were to be true, then it would be the resposibility of the Bar Staff/Management to ask the person to leave. As a KJ, making up that story to try and nip things in the bud with the "Water Sipper," is no different than the scenario you presented just now. It is still the responsibility of the Establishment to do their own dirty work, not the KJ (just as twansenne and Bazza both pointed out).
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
I would never tell a customer (paying or not) that they weren't allowed back in. If the bar doesn't like that particular customer, THEY need to tell them! That is NOT my job! Now if it was someone abusing my equipment or not following rules, I can ban them from using my equipment, but singing oldie tunes - and singing them well is not a bannable offense.
Author:  MrBoo [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
We had a standing hard fast rule when I worked the bar. I handled the entertainment and the bar handled the rest. It was totally up to me as to who sang and when. I could very well decide someone could not sing any longer and did sometimes for a night, and in one case forever. That had nothing to do with whether they were allowed in the bar or not. It was up to the bar to tell someone they could not come in the bar any longer.
Author:  exweedfarmer [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
I have to agree with everyone else. This is not a karaoke related issue. If the management wants him tossed let them toss him.
Author:  audioprola [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
I had a similar situation. I had a pretty good singer that never spent any money other then buying a coke. I explained to the owner that some customers come in not necessary to sing but to watch the singers. And if u keep the non singing customers entertained they will stay longer and spend money. Sometimes customers get a kick out of the bad singers believe it or not. I would have never kicked someone out for not spending money. But that's just me....
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
audioprola wrote:
I had a similar situation. I had a pretty good singer that never spent any money other then buying a coke. I explained to the owner that some customers come in not necessary to sing but to watch the singers. And if u keep the non singing customers entertained they will stay longer and spend money. Sometimes customers get a kick out of the bad singers believe it or not. I would have never kicked someone out for not spending money. But that's just me....

Well it DOES become an issue when more & more people aren't spending. I have heard of people on these forums claim they had great nights - lots of people & singers, but at the end of night ringout, nobody was spending.

But yes what you say is absolutely true as well, I have people that specifically come in to watch the singers, they don't sing themselves but enjoy the show.
Be entertaining or just be entertained! I had this slogan for a while when I first started.
Author:  TopherM [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
I have a water drinker that has been coming to my show for several years. After a couple years, my bar owner asked me to say something to him. I simply gave him the straight low down; that the bar owner paid for me to be there, and if he didn't spend any money he wasn't supporting the bar, the bartender (who would get him 4-5 water refills a night) or my show. It's basic loitering.

Anyway, that was about 3 years ago, and the guy now always brings a $5.00 bill with him, buys one beer for $3.50, and leaves a $1.50 tip. It's not much, but the owner and bartenders have not complained since he at least started buying something.

My point being, this is a common sense situation, and can easily be handled in a very straightforward, gentle way. If the patron then wants to bring drama into it, then that's on them. No bar or karaoke show NEEDS a singer who thinks singing karaoke is 100% free.
Author:  timberlea [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
Not sure why you got yourself in the middle of this as it may hurt you as you will be made to be the bad guy. If the management wants someone gone, then it is up to management to tell them they are persona non gratis. The only time I will tell someone they're gone is if they purposely damage equipment or if they are disruptive to the person on stage.
Author:  johnny reverb [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
Does he spend nothing? He sings oldies, and he's a descent singer? When did that start annoying people? Is there more to the story? It sounds like the few customers you have are a bit strange. Does he sing the same songs over and over again?.....tell us more.
ps.....do they serve food there, and does getting a room count?
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
johnny reverb wrote:
Does he spend nothing? He sings oldies, and he's a descent singer? When did that start annoying people? Is there more to the story? It sounds like the few customers you have are a bit strange. Does he sing the same songs over and over again?.....tell us more.
ps.....do they serve food there, and does getting a room count?
But it's also a hotel lounge. I can see them having some regulars, but mostly visitors so it wouldn't matter if he sings the same songs.
I also am thinking there might be something more to the story.
Author:  karaoke koyote [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
Quite frankly, if I've only got a few singers I mix it up a bit with music requests. I'm perfectly happy to take song requests, and try to play songs that seem to match the crowd that's in front of me. This way everyone is having fun, even if they aren't singing. This also has the effect of keeping the same singer from constantly coming up, which, even if they are good can be grating.

Honestly, and not to be harsh... I'm going to offer some constructive criticism; but this seems more to do with hosting skills than anything else. This sort of conflict can be easily resolved by adjusting what you are doing. Like the other hosts here, I will NEVER ask a singer not to come unless they are obnoxious to the other singers, or abuse my equipment.

This job requires people skills. People skills with your manager offering an alternate solution to him than 'don't have him back.' How about lets not get him up so much if its slow.

Also people handling with the lounge crowd you have and catering to them. This can be a real challenge because your people are transitory.. but guess what? THAT'S THE JOB!
Author:  simpmech [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Asking a Singer Not to return
Sorry so long to respond to this post.
In a nutshell, he isn't a horrible singer he just apparently annoys the regulars who are there to be entertained. They don't mind a small dose of him (very small) but he also goes out into the crowd and gets in their faces when he sings etc. He has spent $0 in 2 years there for anything, drink (pop or otherwise) food or hotel room. Since my original posting of this it has occurred to me that trying to take the high road by telling him tastefully and tactfully instead of the hotel management (complete strangers to him) was the wrong choice. Like many of you have said, I should have let them handle it. I chose to speak to him as I would have wanted this done if the shoe were on the other foot. OF course the word spread that I kicked him out etc. and what an a** I am. Completely not true, I have actually bent over backwards for this guy over the years, buying CD's with his song request & knowing he is the only one that sings these songs. Hind-site is 20/20.
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