Karaoke Forums

I am an independent musician.
I write a song.
I perform it at local coffee shops.
People like it.
I see people singing along to it while I play my set.
I get the idea that I could make some extra money by creating a karaoke version of it and selling it through my web site.
This extra income could help me upgrade my equipment, pay for studio time, pursue my passion with greater resources.
I put the karaoke song online for $1.99
I post the info to Facebook and Twitter.
I get a 1/2 dozen downloads the first day.
A friend calls me and says -
Your karaoke song is on YouTube, Torrent, iRC.
All of a sudden, the product I created to sell to support my passion is being distributed for free.
My dream of making extra money is being negatively impacted because people have taken what I am selling and starting giving it away for free.

YouTube is generating advertising revenue off my creation, but I am not making a penny.
Torrent sites are generating advertising revenue when searches for my content seeds show up in results, but I am not making a penny.

"But I just wanted to practice singing it for karaoke so I won't be embarrassed!"
"But I don't see very well so I downloaded it from mIRC and adjusted the lyrics for myself"
"But I just didn't want to pay for it because....why pay for it when I can download it for free?"

That is $5.97 I didn't receive that by all rights I should have.
Scale that out to the 100's....1000's.....10,000's.

I may still continue to sell through my site, and I may generate income that still lets me upgrade my equipment, pay for more studio time, and pursue my passion.......but I can't help but think I may have been able to do so much faster and with greater financial resources if all of those people were paying me.

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-Chris

Ain't the internet great?

I had to replace the window regulator in my car door. I could have bought a repair manual for around 20 dollars but I found a youtube video that showed me exactly how to fix my problem. I hope the book publisher doesn't come after me.

They should have pirate emoticon.

I guess it's all in where you want to draw your ethical line. The internet is like a library where you can borrow whatever it is you're looking for.

I'm not going to feel bad for singing a song that I like and if Bruce Springsteen wants to come to my house and admonish me for singing some of his songs; I'll invite him in for a beer. I don't think he needs any more money from me. I've spent thousands of dollars on his concert tickets over the years and I think we're even.

See how easy it is? I don't feel even a little bit guilty about it. If the worst thing I do in my life is "borrow" a song here and there; I'm cool with that. I don't think I'm alone either. If Heaven is full of nothing but hall monitor types; who would want to go there?

Te sinners are much more fun, only the good die young.

While anyone who steals is a thief, and thus unethical, such people exist. Would you knowingly leave a hundred dollar bill under your windshield wiper in a parking lot, go shopping, and expect it to be there when you got back?

Yet you, and some mfrs., willingly put original quality tracks on line and don't expect them to be pirated. Heck, they don't even have to go to the crappy copy quality sites because they can get originals. It's not fair, but theives exist. One should act accordingly to protect one's product.

You were trying to market a product without having to pay for marketing, rather than protecting your product.
Yup, if good enough it would have gotten stolen anyway eventually, but you would have made more money in the meantime.
Instead, you put that hundred dollar bill under the wiper at the very beginning.

It's not your fault that sleazebags steal, but tbat's no reason to HELP them.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I was thinking about this the other day. Maybe you're not seeing the big picture. If you release the Karaoke Version of your song as freeware, karaoke folks might sing it. From there, maybe a band will want to record it and a major producer will want to publish it. Back in the day when I was doing the song writing bit, the problem was getting exposure. If that's the problem still, maybe this is a way. Good Luck,

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Okay, who took my pants?

What all this means can be explained as "Future Shock" and dealing with the new reality of the information age. When I attended college back in the day the book "Future Shock" was required reading. Yes there still were books back then and book stores. The whole idea behind the book was the rapid accumulation and distribution of information. Back when the book came out their was no internet and the home computer industry wasn't even born. The computer wasn't user friendly and you had to take classes to learn to use one. We still had typewriters, if you wanted to record music off the radio you used cassettes. I guess that was the start of obtaining audio music without paying for it.

Naturally as both technology and total accumulated knowledge increased, so did the public's ability to obtain and distribute information outside of the traditional channels of distribution. It used to take ten years to double the total amount of accumulated knowledge, that is all the information collected since records aka history was produced. During the 90's with the explosion of home computers that total increased to being quadrupled every ten years. Recently I saw a figure that seems unbelievable it is now increased by the 10th power every ten years. That means on average every year now the total knowledge is doubling. One thing encouraging about all of this is we might figure a way out of all of our current problems given a little time. On the other hand we might figure out a way to kill off the human race. Talk about the choice between good and evil.

You are the technical computer guy Chris, you are more savvy as how to use and get the benefit from the new information age. Computers are not my thing, books and ideas are. Our laws have not kept up with the technology and have to play catch up. The reason is this yearly doubling in total knowledge v.s. the slow reaction of government and the courts. Where the artist used to have a window of opportunity to make his or her profit, due to increased distribution of all information that window keeps shrinking. This is the true democracy letting everyone have equal access to information, because knowledge is power. It is at the cost of artists and others that come up with the new ideas.

The scenario is flawed just as the over all premise of the "topic". You can't lose something you never had. The song writer did not lose $5.97 from the three downloads because it is entirely possible those people would have never purchased\paid to begin with. Someone did steal the IP but they did not take away $5.97 and there is a huge difference. To Exweed's point, it is entirely possible (and much more likely) that playing one of those stolen tracks could cause others to like it and actually purchase it. So what happens if one of those stolen tracks ends up causing a huge wave of sales and recognition? Would it be worth it if someone taking the track actually caused millions of purchased copies?
Case in point: In the early days Microsoft's IP was being ripped off like crazy. OS versions, Office, you name it. It turned out to be one of the biggest reasons Microsoft is now on every PC in the world. Was it worth it? You don't have to answer that because the answer is obvious.
I do not condone the stealing. I am just saying this topic isn't nearly as black and white as some want it to be. The narrow minded (and failed) approach is to to try to eliminate the use of non-compensated material. The broader, proven approach is to limit the issue and possibly use it to your advantage.

Having worked for Microsoft for almost two decades, I am perfectly aware of what piracy did for the company.

Which is EXACTLY why I didn't use "A well known, established artist with lots of marketing power" as my example.

You are correct that that piracy may in fact increase exposure, but chances are more likely that for a small, independent artist, it will not be the same kind of exposure.

The point of the thread would be to see how people would justify that the piracy is just not that big a deal or flat out okay.

Microsoft, would rather see paid for licenses from all of the folks n the Middle East and Asia because they know how much in profits they would realize. They never encouraged piracy and they don't look the other way on it. They are very serious about combatting it and they have a much larger resource pool than our independent artist.

So now.....what is the independent artist supposed to do? Be thankful for the exposure due to piracy? Or find an attorney to pursue those that stole from them? And of course, how do YOU react to what the independent artist decides to do? Support them for defending their IP? Or blast them for harassing people that just wanted to "try before buying".

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-Chris

I'll never justify piracy. It is not ok. My point is piracy is something that will not go away. How a company or artist deals with it is up to them but making it your primary focus in your actions is a huge mistake. Terrorism is a reality of life these days. I obviously do not justify it. I also do not let it run my life or factor heavily in my choices. I do not avoid flying simply because the plane could be a a terrorist target. Texting and driving is a real problem. I do not justify it. I also do not let it keep me from getting in my car and driving where ever I need to go.
Being with Microsoft for 2 decades, you are fully aware that they were not always a major rock star. I've recently finished two books that use examples of how Microsoft could have easily folded in the early days of computing and at two other points in their past. Software piracy has been a factor and major player since the first floppy drive was added to a PC. There are companies that focused more on losing sales (again they really lost nothing) versus plowing forward. Makers of WordPerfect and Lotus 123 come to mind. Microsoft was focused on gaining market share while those solutions were focused on not losing market share, and part of that lost (again lost?) share was to piracy.
So if I am a fledgling artist that has a product that the world wants, I look at the people and companies of the past and how they dealt with Piracy. I do not let it drive me. I find ways to get my product out there in a way that makes it easy to get to and I provide it at a value that is attractive to those that will pay for it. And I may even give some of it away to get it out there.
I'm a huge Journey fan and have seen them countless times. I remember the first show I saw with the current lead singer. The band remade many of their hits, and had some new stuff. They GAVE the CD away to everyone who bought show tickets for that tour. Their goal was obvious and it was worth the cost to achieve that goal.

Piracy will never ever be controlled. How many songs do you think every new singer/composer on the block has had pirated? As soon as it is released on a CD or in a download it's gonna show up on some Torrent somewhere. If all the artists were to just give up because their stuff was pirated we would never have any more new music.

I DO NOT condone piracy but I'm gonna guess that just about everyone here has done it at sometime or another.

You say not me?

Just one example have you ever in your life (and for some of us that is a long time), recorded on tape/disc/mp3 player/computer, a song that you don't have the disc for any more, or never had the original medium because you got it off the radio or from some friend, but still have the song in some forgotten library? Well there ya go.

Yep I'll admit it I have , in fact I'm sure that I have a large stack of Reel to Reel tapes somewhere loaded with hundreds of songs, but no longer have the record as I lost a lot of them in a fire long ago. Don't use them as no longer have a Reel to Reel. Same goes for Cassettes.
Ya ya I know personal use and all but if you follow SC's logic it's a copy of an original and it's illegal.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Justin Bieber is a major star today because he was discovered on the internet where people go to see his young talent for FREE. He might not be the brightest kid in the world but he marketed his talents well in the early days and he is worth millions today.

Criminals come in all shapes and sizes.

One thing they all have in common is rationalizing their actions.

And maybe you will win the lottery.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Bruce, with the library you get to BORROW it and not KEEP it.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

and nobody borrows a CD from the library and makes a copy of it?

Chris you should "copyright" your song though some will say "you don't need to" and register it in the Copyright Office as proof if ever some very well known or popular artist steals and "Pirates" your song, the very thing some of our famous artist's have done throughout the years and get pissed at us for doing, they too do it, believe that. They will make millions and you nothing for your work. I remember back in HS in '58-62 when we as youngsters would play our guitars and sing songs and of course later in life joined and had our own bands. But the dads of those of us who also were in bands or had their own band would tell us to change just one word in the song to prevent copyright infringement, yup even back 60+ years ago. It seemed legal then, but not since the copyright act of 1976, it ain't legal. If I were you I would send it to the copyright office like I suggested, just to protect yourself and as proof you are the artist who wrote the song. I had one of them streaming torrents on my computer after being accused of downloading 6 songs on New Years, which I didn't do, but I did find the torrent on my computer and deleted it along with 1500 songs I did not download in a conspicuous folder. I was actually giving away free songs without even knowing it, trogan malware kind of thing, free downloads are not free, believe that! Only until one gets caught, but they don't stop the one who uploaded it either, unbelievable, no! I do have several hundred songs from Amazon Cloud and did download about 100 since then to my computer of my favorites from the 50's to about the 80's. Supposed to be legal.

But the songs I downloaded from Amazon Cloud were MP3 and not Karaoke.

Not honest people.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Chris didn't write or produce a song... He was just giving us a what if scenario, and wanted to see how people could/would justify it actually happening.

and we all know that there is no such thing as a corrupt police officer, right? The LAPD beat the hell out of Rodney King. The NYPD slaughtered a man for pulling out his wallet but we have to focus on the people who copy some songs. You guys crack me up.

So what does one have to do with the other?

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You can be strange but not a stranger