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Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31670		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JRS7 [ Sun May 24, 2015 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
Have a Mackie 1202 mixer that I use for Karaoke. Have 2 channel Behringer limiter hooked to the singer mics to combat screaming drunks from blowing my speakers. Because of the situation (complicated), I have a new guy who will be running my show one night a week playing dance music, and I am fearful of him playing too loud and blowing speakers. I want to limit the ENTIRE mix coming from the Mackie, is there a way to do this?

Currently I use Y cables in the 'insert' holes on the back of the mixer. Hoping there is a way I can 'limit' the entire mix coming out. I can't just go from the main outs into the limiter, and then on to the EQ, can I?

Any and all help is appreciated! :D
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sun May 24, 2015 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
sure you can, but the music is already limited in the studio like an album, so all you really need to do is compress the mics like they would in a studio. limiting the main mix is ok if you use it as just a peak limiter (only if the entire mix goes to a point that it can overload the amps/speakers) but other than that i would not recomend using it in the same manner that you are with the mics.
that being said....yes, it would go just like you described, except i would put it after the EQ. EQ will change the signal level of the output so i would keep it after EQ.
Author:  JRS7 [ Sun May 24, 2015 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
sure you can, but the music is already limited in the studio like an album, so all you really need to do is compress the mics like they would in a studio. limiting the main mix is ok if you use it as just a peak limiter (only if the entire mix goes to a point that it can overload the amps/speakers) but other than that i would not recomend using it in the same manner that you are with the mics.
that being said....yes, it would go just like you described, except i would put it after the EQ. EQ will change the signal level of the output so i would keep it after EQ.


Yeah, I just want to Peak Limit everything so he can't blow my speakers. So main outs on the board, to EQ first, then out to Limiter with the 'Peak Limit' buttons on, then out to amps? At that point, anything he tried to go too loud with, will be limited to where I set the Peak?

Edit: Just realized I can't do that, the EQ has to be after the Limiter, because the EQ has the Sub output. If I put it before the Limiter, the Sub is not Peak Limited, and that's the main one I'm worried about.
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sun May 24, 2015 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
just send your main mono out to one side of the compressor and the sub to the other side.
now keep in mind i am assuming you are getting another compressor for this purpose. if not, anytime the singer gets louder the music will come down as well.
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Author:  JRS7 [ Sun May 24, 2015 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
Makes sense, but I don't think my Compresser/Limiter has a Sub out. It's on the EQ, and that's the problem.
Author:  Paradigm Karaoke [ Sun May 24, 2015 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
exactly. your main out should be mono anyway so just take the left or right (whichever side you have it all panned to) into the ch 1 of the EQ. then the ch 1 out of the EQ into the compressor channel 1 in and the EQ sub out to the compressor channel 2 in.

your monitor send goes to the EQ ch 2 in and the ch 2 out goes to your monitor amp.

does that help?
Author:  TopherM [ Tue May 26, 2015 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
If you have proper gain structure, you would be able to turn your input sources all the way up on the faders and still not reach peak for your amp/speakers, as there would be about a 10% headspace built in that would not be accessible.
Author:  JRS7 [ Tue May 26, 2015 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
TopherM wrote:
If you have proper gain structure, you would be able to turn your input sources all the way up on the faders and still not reach peak for your amp/speakers, as there would be about a 10% headspace built in that would not be accessible.


Not sure what you mean? Do you mean turning up the Mixer as loud as possible, and then turning the amps down to an acceptable level?
Author:  TopherM [ Tue May 26, 2015 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Limiting my entire mix instead of just mics?
On the right track, but not exactly. With proper gain structure, not only will your output sound the absolute best it can with your equipment, but the build-in headspace make it very very difficult to clip anything, so it's fool-proof protection for your equipment. It would take a very unusually high energy transient to clip a system that was set up with proper gain structure. I don't think I've even touched clip on any of my components or speakers in about 6 years since learning the concepts of gain structure.

Here's some reading. The GAIN STRUCTURE section that starts about 1/2 way down on the last link (DBX Forum) made the most sense to me personally, but these are each written at different levels from basic to pretty technical.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr98/a ... cture.html

http://www.rane.com/note135.html

http://www.fohonline.com/current-issue/ ... cture.html

http://www2.dbxpro.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=959
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