Karaoke Forums

Joe,

I have read your postings on ODJT for the last month or so regarding the subject & you have gone on & on about how SC may be trying to skirt legal issues in the US by moving offshore & making statements like you know the law months before Kurt started posting on that thread.

Here is an example of you posting like you know Australian, International, & US law:

"The tracks that SC downloads are licensed for use ONLY IN AUSTRALIA, because it is Australian law that licenses them. There is no world wide international licensing for use. They have shifted ( in their sleazy way) responsibility to the karaoke host. In other words, receips or not, their downloaded tracks are not licensed for use in the U.S. , and never have been. They don't own the copyright to anything but their logo, which means they CAN'T license in the U.S."

Here is the link to that post where you make this statement:

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/showthread.php ... post307242

Even though Kurt has explained months later that those downloads CAN NOT be used commercially as you eluded to in that ODJT post above, you still did not answer my question as to whatever legal background or counsel you got to understand Australian, International, or US law regarding the legalities of karaoke downloads & offshore businesses.

Since you did not answer my questions, I assume you have no legal background or counsel on this subject. I can now make up my own mind who to listen to. Sound Choice obviously has a legal team & Kurt appears to be making legal statements, & major corporate decisions, based on what his lawyers are telling him.

I understand your concerns Joe & have wondered myself about the legallities behind the offshore issues, but I will now have to discount any opinions by you regarding anything you say about anything that has to do with any legal issues regarding SC & take what Kurt is saying as what is really going on with all this.

Thank you for your non-answers Joe....

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diafel,

Yes having a legal background or counsel does hold more weight than the other when it comes to reading the legal rhetoric & legal opinions on these forums. The credibility of ones post should be scrutinized by the reader. It does not mean that someone is better than someone else, or if one got good or bad legal advise. It is the fact of whether someone has anything credible to back up the legal statement whether it comes from legal experience or legal reference. It is a judgement of ones credibility on the subject. Joe dodged my question & on the thread you started on ODJT, Thunder would be the type of poster that I would lend credibility too. Why? Because he states that he has defended over 20 cases & acted in his own behalf.

Here is that statement:

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/showthread.php ... post311995

Joe & many others on the forums spout legalities which are purly assumptions. I just think it is important that the readers of these forums, including myself, know who to listen to regarding this issue by understanding their source.

I understand that people have their concerns & opinions about the subject at hand & want to debate the issues. However, again, when people start spouting legal opinions without any experience or legitamate reference, the reader needs to be aware. That's all.

Thank you.

InsaneKJ who is not a lawyer, has no legal background, has never sued anyone, has never been in jail, but has a lawyer if need be, for a price! !

Normally, I would jump in right here with my own long tirade....

But I think it will be more "fun and inviting" just to get some popcorn and watch...

You're welcome....

To answer your question, my business activities ( and previously owned enterprises) have made it worthwhile to keep counsel on retainer. This means that I have continuing access, if need be.

That being said, SO WHAT?

I'm not quite sure where your difficulty lies.

If Mr. Slep BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, states that SC does not have the rights for format shifting, and then does it anyway to facilitate downloading, at what point would I need the advice of council to see a discrepancy?


Actually, I believe your "legal" questions to be an attempt to sidetrack the thread, and since, by your own admission, you have no background, any questions regarding others would seem moot.

On top of that, any disagreements I might have with SC's business policies are WAY in second place.

One thing Mr. Slep has done ( and for which I sincerely thanked him on another forum, because it took guts) was to state unequivocally that KJs are NOT ALLOWED to use the downloads to run their shows. This took guts because it means that the downloads would be worthless to any honest Karaoke Host.

The DOWNLOAD problem - no matter WHERE obtained- has been my main concern all along.

Too many hosts have been misled or mis-informed, and have bought unlicensed downloads in good faith, and yet leave themselves in positions of liability.

There are no U.S. licensed downloads - and the CEO of Sound Choice will and has validated that. Buy discs, and rip

With THAT issue finally resolved, again thanks to Mr. Slep, and because I'm disc based anyway, the other parts of the situation or only of secondary interest to me.

BTW- I haven't seen your screen name on the other forum, so I assume you are hiding your identity there too?

....kid playing secret agent.....

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Had a dream

In my dream the Karaoke Scene Forum was a church. “The Church of Karaoke”
And this church’s membership consists of both saints (those with legal song libraries) and sinners (pirates, if you will). And we all come together with the same common interest, that of karaoke.
We all share responsibilities as members of this church and one of the saints responsibilities is to teach and persuade the sinners that a legal library is the righteous path to get on and stay on. Some of us do a better job of this than others, while some, through a frustration with sinners, will sometimes make assumptions and make sarcastic remarks. The elders and wise ones of the church will intervene on this expression of frustration, pointing out that the wiser approach is to educate the sinners, and once again all is good within our church.
We all have a good idea of who the saints are, and there are many, but we really have no idea who the sinners are, as they don’t come forth and confess
(except once in a great while one will, possibly through ignorance, admit something that alludes to an illegal library)
This is where the teachers (saints) should and do try to point out the error of the sinners way; hoping to bring another lost sheep back into the fold.

Then one day a messenger appeared. (you see our church is open to all)
This messenger (he or she) was anonymous to be sure.
He/she spoke of how the divine one, the exalted one, had gone into other lands and was bringing down his wrath on few so that all would shiver in fear. The offering plate was not as full as it should be and the divine one was angry (understandable), He felt that he had been cheated out of monies that were rightfully his. (also understandable)

The messenger professed that he/she had been given the “word” and that most, if not all of us were sinners, but if we followed his/her path it would lead us to karaoke righteousness and that following him/her was the only way to find such righteousness. He/she stated that we must be baptized (audited) (Oh, yes, there was also a mandatory offering plate being passed)

Then the divine one, the exalted one, made an appearance at another church (another forum) to speak to the masses, not knowing saint from sinner, he pretty much accused most all of being sinners and insulted all with his arrogance and demeaning tone. (the divine one must have never read “How to win friends and influence people”) He alluded to going into other lands to bring down his wrath, so that all would shiver with fear.
When some of the saints reminded the divine one that they had been good and loyal followers and had contributed to the offering plate many times, the divine one dismissed it, as it surely was not enough, and that they were really no better than the sinners, in fact while the saints had contributed much to the offering plate they must also be baptized (audited) to find righteousness. The sinners would also be required to be baptized (audited) and to pay a much lesser amount than the saints had contributed and they would then be equal to the saints in righteousness.
Word spread that the divine one would make an appearance at our church, I can only assume to give the same sermon to us.

Yawn….(awakening) God, what a dream!

_________________
Music speaks to the heart in ways words cannot express.

That was an insane dream.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

_________________
Music speaks to the heart in ways words cannot express.

If yall would allow water drinkers at your shows you wouldnt have all these problems....

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

That dream was insane, no doubt. Fitting too.

ANYONE can SAY they have vast experience.
I, too have spent huge amounts of time representing myself in court, and Supreme Court, no less!
WITHOUT a lawyer to consult or to back me up.
It was a long, intricate case with many nuances that needed to be proved.
I spent many, many long hours doing research regarding previous law cases and precedents.
More time than I care to mention.
The case took approximately 2 years, with much back and forth with legal documents, filings, etc.
We finally got to court and before the judge.
And then I won.
Against a lawyer.
I presented myself professionally, so much so, that afterward, in the hallway, I had others wanting to hire me for their cases. They thought I was a lawyer.
Not only did I win AGAINST A LAWYER, but I won a settlement that is rarely handed out, if ever. In order to win, you must prove your case, beyond a reasonable doubt and then some. And then you have to prove WHY you should get that settlement, and then some.
I did just that. Against a lawyer who went to school to do that (but couldn't).
I don't brag about it and throw it around like my voice should have more weight than anyone else's. (not saying that Thunder does this).
But does it mean I should be taken with more or less credibility than anyone else here?
I don't think so.
You see, you forget something.
I, as well as anybody else on these boards, including Thunder and Kurt Slep, can say whatever we want. You would most likely never know whether we are telling the whole truth or maybe only part of it. Maybe one or all of us are lying outright.
How will you know?
This is the internet.
Credibility means crap on here, when you get right down to it.
So we must take each other at face value and allow EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US the benefit of the doubt, at least until proven otherwise.
Joe has EARNED that benefit. Kurt Slep's own statement has proven him out!
Yet you insist on vilifying him and insinuating that he's a liar.
Why is that?

I daresay that YOU are starting prove YOURSELF to be incredible.

Edit: AWESOME DREAM!!!!

The problem with this karyoker is that water drinkers (for whatever reasons) don't add to the income of the club which is used to pay the entertainment (namely the kj).


Diafel;

Good post... you are right about the internet, You or I could be anyone....

Yeah....I could just be a middle aged,balding,slightly overweight loser with nothing better to do than............Oh wait a sec.....

RLC, one HELLUVA post! Just great!

Keryoker, Ya made the Pepsi spray again- you owe me a keyboard condom...

Diafel, at this point you should thank the stars that you're married already, because I'd do it sight unseen. Thank you so very much..

Insane, ....... Ah, well....

BTW- This is for you, Insane, or P.A., or whoever:

From Kurt Slep, CEO of Sound Choice, as posted on another forum:
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" We still produce music for them and for our own Sound Choice brand. However, read their Terms and Conditions carefully:

11. Usage Rules
You acknowledge and agree to use the Service, including the Products available through the Service, in compliance with the applicable Usage Rules:

You agree to use the Service and the Products available through the Service for personal, non-commercial use only; You agree not to register for an Account on behalf of someone else or of any group or entity;
You agree not to use, sell, rent, share, transfer, license or otherwise provide anybody with the Products;
Each Product that you purchase may be downloaded a maximum of 5 times, all formats combined, but you acknowledge that you cannot use a Product simultaneously in more than one location. The download links are maintained in your digital locker until you have reached your maximum download limit per link. Once the download limit has been reached, the link is deactivated;
Notwithstanding the foregoing, once you purchased a Product and you received the Product, it is your responsibility not to lose, destroy or damage the Product, and Stingray shall have no liability to you in the event of any loss, destruction or damage;
You agree not to use any data mining, robots, scraping or similar data gathering or extraction methods;
In the event that Stingray changes any part of the Service or discontinues the Service, which Stingray may do at its own discretion, you acknowledge that you may no longer be able to use the Service and the Products, or to use them to the same extent as prior to such change or discontinuation, and that Stingray shall have no liability to you in such case; and
You acknowledge and agree that you obtain absolutely no intellectual property rights in the Product that you download, including, without limitation, no synchronization rights whatsoever.


Since these tracks have a different logo, if you do attempt to use them in your show, they will be INSTANTLY recognizable as to the source of them and that the use conditions have been violated. (Remember you do not have any rights other than that which has been granted by the publisher and the other IP rights holders, thus you are open to a lawsuit.) Stingray paid MILLIONS for the rights for their download licenses and they are not going to risk a publisher yanking their licenses because they "tolerated" illegal use. As a member of KIAA, when /if any member does an audit they will share results on all content found during an audit. It will be up to the rights holders to take whatever action they deem appropriate, but the market should be aware. "

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To be succinct: He has validated my statements. One cannot legally run a karaoke show with downloaded tracks in the U.S.

If one is doing so, one is as much a "Pirate" as one calls others, even if one actually paid for the tracks. Be careful os stones in glass houses....

Aaaaahh..... much better.....

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Actually it says nothing of the sort, it just states 'their' (Stingray) services/products may not be used commercially. Nothing about other manus/services nor about the running of them in the states.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Awww... Shucks!
(PS: is there a reason I should be thankful? Are you a hiding the fact that you're some kind of monster that we don't know about? Jekyll/Hyde??)


I think he's actually referring specifically to Sound Choice/Stingray here, but I could be wrong.
As far as running them in the states, it's a moot point. They cannot be run ANYWHERE for commercial purposes.

You pay extra for the "Karaoke pickup option"...says nothing about previous conversions...just future ones. I think as long as you have the produb licence they are going to ignore previous uploads

1) Not a Mr. Hyde, but I'm stuck with mirrors in my house- I have a lot to overcome.....


2) As for the Stingray/ Sound Choice thing:

A- The relationship between Stingray and SC is murky at best, but it's there still.

B- You can add any mfr. you want to- to repeat ( unfortunately) again:

There are NO karaoke downloads licensed for the use of U.S. based Karaoke Hosts- of ANY BRAND. None, Zip ,Zero.

When and if these licenses come in to being, you can be sure that documentation of such will be available with each downloaded track. Until then.....

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I hate to keep referring to the "other" forum and don't want to link away from this one so wish Mr. Slep would post his info here, also. But didn't he pretty much back you up, Joe? It seems they are not providing downloads for karaoke hosts not because they are stupid but because there are some ancient quirks in US law that they can't get around at this time. Is some more cutting and pasting in order?

You are correct,Leop. As stated I stated in other threads, KS DID validate my statements.

Any U.S. BASED host running a show based on downloads is running unlicensed music. Whether they paid for the music or not-receipts not withstanding- they are as illegal as the people out there who bought loaded HDs from E-bay. .

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."