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outllawXsound
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 Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:32 am |
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The Lone Ranger wrote: 8) How could it be the venues would be getting a free ride? With Oregon suits we have seen a shift in SC's approach and they are going after the deep pockets. They have come to the realization that the small fry host is to hard to identify and serve. Even if they do haul them in they have no assets and it's a waste of SC's limited resources. In my area only one host has been approached by SC and when it was found out he had nothing they dropped their suit. The venues are the logical target since they are easy to serve and have more assets,than the employees they hire for their karaoke needs. The problem with this approach is that there is an increased chance the venues might choose to contest the suit, rather than pay off SC. Like they say no guts no glory. Have a nice day. Maybe they found a name on the internet? Yup, there's your "investigation". Maybe JOE. In my area the venues had not even heard there was lawsuits being filed. The 4-5 I tried to talk to them about being legal told me I was full of #@#@ and to go on down the road jack.
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The Lone Ranger
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:41 am |
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outllawXsound wrote: The Lone Ranger wrote: 8) How could it be the venues would be getting a free ride? With Oregon suits we have seen a shift in SC's approach and they are going after the deep pockets. They have come to the realization that the small fry host is to hard to identify and serve. Even if they do haul them in they have no assets and it's a waste of SC's limited resources. In my area only one host has been approached by SC and when it was found out he had nothing they dropped their suit. The venues are the logical target since they are easy to serve and have more assets,than the employees they hire for their karaoke needs. The problem with this approach is that there is an increased chance the venues might choose to contest the suit, rather than pay off SC. Like they say no guts no glory. Have a nice day. Maybe they found a name on the internet? Yup, there's your "investigation". Maybe JOE. In my area the venues had not even heard there was lawsuits being filed. The 4-5 I tried to talk to them about being legal told me I was full of #@#@ and to go on down the road jack.  It really depends in what part of the country you live in whether this legal process is being pushed that hard, in parts of Florida, North Carolina, Oregon the hosts say yes. Where I'm at in California I would have to say no, and I know quite a few hosts here. Some certified hosts will tell you this process is the best thing since sliced bread. Then other hosts will tell you it hurt their business to even say they were certified, so it's a real mixed bag. You have to remember this is just one company trying the legal process to solve their recovery problems. Their efforts are limited because the resources are limited and can only be concentrated in a few areas. Nothing like the nation wide effort needed to really solve the piracy problem. Have a blessed day.
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JimHarrington
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:44 am |
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JoeChartreuse wrote: ....And you do so without any actual proof. Therein lay the rub.
Um, no. We do it with substantial proof. JoeChartreuse wrote: Here in NJ, at least, that letter to the venue would be grounds for a huge Restraint Of Trade suit if that host is dismissed because of it.
Would also wonder about the parameters for proof that a venue "knowingly" used a KJ that doesn't comply to SC's wishes.
Here's the thing, Joe. Trademark infringement--along with copyright infringement and, for that matter, patent infringement--is a strict liability offense. What that means is that if you are committing it, your state of mind has nothing to do with it. The only difference is that when a venue isn't doing it directly--they are merely providing the place and deriving a financial benefit from it--then they have to be on some sort of notice that it's occurring. Once that notice is given, they have an obligation to stop it from occurring, or they will be subject to the same penalties as the direct infringer. We don't have to prove to the venue that it's occurring. We have to notify them that we believe it's occurring. JoeChartreuse wrote: Is the venue simply supposed to take your notice that the operator is being sued by SC as evidence of wrongdoing, and ignoring it ( again, sincethere is actually still no proof of wrongdoing presented to the venue) grounds for SC to sue the venue?
"Ignoring it" = "allowing it to continue to occur after having been notified that it is occurring" And under those circumstances, yes, that notice puts the burden on the venue to investigate and prevent infringement. If they want to run the risk of a suit, so be it.
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outllawXsound
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:54 am |
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The Lone Ranger wrote: outllawXsound wrote: The Lone Ranger wrote: 8) How could it be the venues would be getting a free ride? With Oregon suits we have seen a shift in SC's approach and they are going after the deep pockets. They have come to the realization that the small fry host is to hard to identify and serve. Even if they do haul them in they have no assets and it's a waste of SC's limited resources. In my area only one host has been approached by SC and when it was found out he had nothing they dropped their suit. The venues are the logical target since they are easy to serve and have more assets,than the employees they hire for their karaoke needs. The problem with this approach is that there is an increased chance the venues might choose to contest the suit, rather than pay off SC. Like they say no guts no glory. Have a nice day. Maybe they found a name on the internet? Yup, there's your "investigation". Maybe JOE. In my area the venues had not even heard there was lawsuits being filed. The 4-5 I tried to talk to them about being legal told me I was full of #@#@ and to go on down the road jack. It really depends in what part of the country you live in whether this legal process is being pushed that hard, in parts of Florida, North Carolina, Oregon the hosts say yes. Where I'm at in California I would have to say no, and I know quite a few hosts here. Some certified hosts will tell you this process is the best thing since sliced bread. Then other hosts will tell you it hurt their business to even say they were certified, so it's a real mixed bag. You have to remember this is just one company trying the legal process to solve their recovery problems. Their efforts are limited because the resources are limited and can only be concentrated in a few areas. Nothing like the nation wide effort needed to really solve the piracy problem. Have a blessed day. You have to remember this is just one company trying the legal process to solve their recovery problems. Their efforts are limited because the resources are limited and can only be concentrated in a few areas. Nothing like the nation wide effort needed to really solve the piracy problem. Have a blessed day. Now that statement is absolutely true. More needs to be done and quickly.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 am |
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The Lone Ranger wrote: It really depends in what part of the country you live in whether this legal process is being pushed that hard, in parts of Florida, North Carolina, Oregon the hosts say yes. Where I'm at in California I would have to say no, and I know quite a few hosts here. Some certified hosts will tell you this process is the best thing since sliced bread. Then other hosts will tell you it hurt their business to even say they were certified, so it's a real mixed bag. You have to remember this is just one company trying the legal process to solve their recovery problems. Their efforts are limited because the resources are limited and can only be concentrated in a few areas. Nothing like the nation wide effort needed to really solve the piracy problem. Have a blessed day. This is about the most reasonable and realistic comment I have ever seen you make. Kudos to you.  -Chris
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The Lone Ranger
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:43 am |
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chrisavis wrote: The Lone Ranger wrote: It really depends in what part of the country you live in whether this legal process is being pushed that hard, in parts of Florida, North Carolina, Oregon the hosts say yes. Where I'm at in California I would have to say no, and I know quite a few hosts here. Some certified hosts will tell you this process is the best thing since sliced bread. Then other hosts will tell you it hurt their business to even say they were certified, so it's a real mixed bag. You have to remember this is just one company trying the legal process to solve their recovery problems. Their efforts are limited because the resources are limited and can only be concentrated in a few areas. Nothing like the nation wide effort needed to really solve the piracy problem. Have a blessed day. This is about the most reasonable and realistic comment I have ever seen you make. Kudos to you. -Chris If it is realistic and reasonable, then maybe it is time to come to the reality that over the long haul SC lone approach is doomed to failure unless they can bring all still viable manus on board. In a way that is what Cloud tried to achieve with their summit and the launching of their product. For a while it looked like CB and SC would be united under the Cloud banner, that would account for about 80% of the professionally used product out here. It didn't happen for what ever reason. Without a united front against piracy, the other option seems to be the setting up of some collection agency similar to what the publishers have, to pay into in return for some kind of permit to operate, and have the agency pay out to the various manus. If it works for the publishers, it should work for karaoke manus. Have a blessed day.
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rickgood
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:17 am |
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As long as karaoke manufacturers continue to sell to the public, piracy will continue to thrive.
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The Lone Ranger
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:28 am |
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rickgood wrote: As long as karaoke manufacturers continue to sell to the public, piracy will continue to thrive. They are so desperate for any kind of sales in this economy can they really afford not to sell to who ever has the money to pay? Have a blessed day.
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MtnKaraoke
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:45 am |
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The Lone Ranger wrote: rickgood wrote: As long as karaoke manufacturers continue to sell to the public, piracy will continue to thrive. They are so desperate for any kind of sales in this economy can they really afford not to sell to who ever has the money to pay? Have a blessed day. Isn't the point that piracy is not selling to anyone or receiving no(as in 0) pay? 
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The Lone Ranger
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:53 am |
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MtnKaraoke wrote: The Lone Ranger wrote: rickgood wrote: As long as karaoke manufacturers continue to sell to the public, piracy will continue to thrive. They are so desperate for any kind of sales in this economy can they really afford not to sell to who ever has the money to pay? Have a blessed day. Isn't the point that piracy is not selling to anyone or receiving no(as in 0) pay? Even the lowly pirate needs an original source to copy, the can't reproduce a pirated anything out of thin air, can they? Have a blessed day.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:20 pm |
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The Lone Ranger wrote: MtnKaraoke wrote: The Lone Ranger wrote: rickgood wrote: As long as karaoke manufacturers continue to sell to the public, piracy will continue to thrive. They are so desperate for any kind of sales in this economy can they really afford not to sell to who ever has the money to pay? Have a blessed day. Isn't the point that piracy is not selling to anyone or receiving no(as in 0) pay? Even the lowly pirate needs an original source to copy, the can't reproduce a pirated anything out of thin air, can they? Have a blessed day. The karaoke material is so distributed via iRC and Torrents these days that "out of thin air" is exactly how anyone can startup. -Chris
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