Karaoke Forums

I was over at the Free Forum and rumbolt laid out how the new PR/WWD/CB/DTE audits are to be conducted. He made comments as to of course burned non original discs and downloads would not be counted. The downloads since they were not authorized for commercial use by CB would not be ok, with maybe a few exceptions, that would have to be discussed on an individual basis. The one thing said that struck me was the SCDG's 1-6 CB were not valid? How could that be? They were produced by CAVS under license from CB, they are a CAVS product, PR would have no standing to audit this material or to sue for it's commercial use in court. If any company would have standing concerning the SCDG product it would be CAVS not CB. If the product was purchased I don't see why it couldn't be used and how PR could claim to have authority over another companies product?

look at your barcodes on the boxes, on your legit sets the barcodes are all different
on the pirated sets some of the barcodes are the same.

_________________
It's all good!

Bar codes aside, wouldn't it be the responsibility of CAVS to protect their product not PR/WWD/DTE/CB? CB was initially paid for the licensing of the CB product placed on the SCDG by CAVS. If anybody lost money it was in fact CAVS who lost sale of product due to it being illegally copied. CAVS would be the only company responsible for auditing their own product, to determine if it is real or a fake.

Just had an update on the PR/WWD/DTE/CB audits they will cost 175.00 for three a three hour audit. If the audit takes more than three hours you have to pay extra. The audit is good for one day, the day of the audit, that will be great for the host that plans a one day career. To really be safe it is recommended that you purchase one of DTE's subscriber's products, so you can be placed on their vetted list. PR will also allow audits for SCDG's provided you have proof of purchase before January of 2007. It is still beyond me how one company can certify the product of another company, especially when that company is still in business. I would think CAVS would have something to say about that.

The KJ pays for the audit regardless. first 3 hours are $175 and the $75/hr afterwards.



Not entirely accurate. The audit will state something to the effect of "as of xx/xx/xxxx we confirm this library to be accurate and in 1-1 compliance". Since their audit program will not have any ongoing updates like what SC does with reporting a 2% variance, they have no way of measuring your continued adherence to policy. I have no issue with this. My SC audit isn't perpetual either. I has an audit date and then I have paperwork asking me to submit updates for 2% variance. SC could send an investigator to my current shows even though I am audited and I provide updates. Doesn't mean I couldn't still be pirating. DTE/PR simply foregoes the additional administrative headache of dealing with KJ updates.



Safe from what? If you are going to claim people will be "safe" from something, back it up. Define

The vetted list is actually no different from the GEM owners list. It is exclusive to people that own a particular product. Or in this case, lease/subscribe.



To date you have proven that your thinking is actually the imaginative conjuring's of a seemingly bitter KJ with a bone to pick with any entity looking to control the piracy of their product. Why not offer up some spectacular reason for this? Don't think.....know. Call CAVS, ask them what they have to say.

The content of the SCDG's is Chartbuster IP. You REALLY should be able to figure it out from here, but I am very interested in hearing more. It's bee a long, tiresome week. I need a good chuckle.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Thanks for pointing out the KJ has to pay for the audit. I meant to say if it goes over 3 hrs, they have to pay extra. Wow it's 75.00 per hour extra. Maybe you can explain Chris how PR can certify a product they don't own namely CAVS SCDG's? You see Chris CAVS paid license fees to CB to place CB product on the SCDG disc. CB got their money up front. The SCDG's are product of CAVS protected under their trade mark. The only company that should be policing CAVS product is CAVS's. Unless CAVS signed away their rights to PR which I doubt. The only bone I have to pick is one pertaining to the manner in which the manus try to get their payoff. What I meant by safe is if PR gets it's payoff, and the host signs up for Cloud, they will not require you to have an audit, it is the end of the story. Also you will avoid being listed in a suit, by PR.

Sigh......PR has the right to enforce Chartbuster IP. I don't know if the "own" the IP, but every indication is that they can enforce it. Doesn't matter who distributes it.



I have some SCDG's at home. I will read the fine print later tonight. I will also give CAVS a call tomorrow to see if they have an opinion on this. I encourage you to call them as well.



Neither PR or DT requires an audit. The audit is voluntary. End of the real story.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

And I spoke to Gretchen and she told me, in no uncertain terms, that there was nothing to worry about if you use DTE single song downloads. Nobody is going to sue you for buying and using them.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Come on Chris while neither PR pr DT requires an audit or for you to subscribe to one of DT's products the host faces a possible suit if they do neither. They are using the old SC sales model of suits drive sales. In order to run your karaoke service without any trouble you are left with the same old choice either pay up, or stop using the product, which if I were to stay in business I would consider. With the exception of my SCDG's which are a CAVS product in my opinion and not subject to control by PR/WWD. CAVS is still an independent operating company and has the responsibility to protect it's own product.

Sound Choice barely made a dent in piracy and after being called a bunch of settlement trollers by a judge, they are barely relevant any longer. No one seems to be afraid of the Big Bad Wolf any more. Why does anyone think that the latest bully on the block will fare any better? The same program that removes Sound Choice logos can just as easily remove Chartbusters logos. Look how easy it was for Karaoke Cloud to remove the Chartbuster logos and replace them with Karaoke Cloud logos. I can't wait to read about their attempts at squeezing their customers for more cash while 90% of the KJs are getting their tracks for free.

Makes you wonder Bruce how SC is able to stay in the game. 2013 isn't over yet it would be interesting to see how many manus make it to 2014.

These audit costs are like paying for an extended warranty on an item that costs 20 bucks. It's a waste of money. Why would anyone allow someone else, who wants to sell you something, to tell you that the product you already paid for is iillegal to use?

Everybody should get their Sweet Georgia Brown Certificates before it's too late.

I read my SCDG's at home the fine print and it seems to be they were indeed licensed for CAVS use by CB. Instead of calling CAVS I sent them an Email. I requested that they not only send me a reply, but also suggested that they have a spokes person like Gretchen come on these forums, and explain exactly the status of CAVS product and establish who holds auditing, and certification rights.

The KJ pays for the audit regardless. first 3 hours are $175 and the $75/hr afterwards.


Hey Chris,

I just wanted to let you know that the hourly cost is not $75, it's $25 after the first three hours.

-Gretchen

Thank you for the correction, Gretchen.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

It's nice to know that everyone can and will make a mistake about the facts. One of the purposes of the forum is to try and get the facts, right Chris?

That ought to go over well as isn't it CAVS that sued CB and drove them out of business?

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Yes but now CB has come back in the form of PR/WWD/DTE, which proves you can't keep a good label down. It keeps coming back like Jason Friday the 13th. With the resumption of CB audits care of PR/DTE, it is being claimed by the new protectors of the CB trademark they have authority to also weigh in on the validity of CB SCDG product as well. I'm trying to get conformation from CAVS if they have such authority?

I just got my reply from CAVS Chris how did you do? The CAVS spokesman if you want to get further information or confirm a point can be reached at -562-777-1846. E mail address CAVSatCAVSUSA.com

What CAVS told me Chris was quite an ear full that is why I want you to hear the story to. There has been a recent court decision of a case I have never heard discussed on this or any forum. Slep Tone U.S. v.s. Light Year Music. This decision establishes the basis for trade mark infringement claimed by both SC and CB. Two parts have to be present to have infringement.

l. You must copy the trade mark in question.

2. You must be trying to create confusion, such as trying to sell the material as original SC or CB product.

At least this is the way it was explained to me. I recommend hosts call the number above to confirm this decision, it is only two weeks old. According to CAVS only the original holder's of the copyright material the publishers can sue for the content of the tracks period. When you pay off the manus you are only paying for the right to display their logo, the publisher's can still sue for content. CAVS is very interested in any host that has hard printed material from PR/WWD/DTE/CB claiming they have the right to audit and verify CAVS product. They want to turn such material over to their own lawyers. From the way I understand things explained to me any host that has been paying money over and beyond what they originally paid for their discs are just wasting it. Right Jim?

Seems like the only people that have been trying to mislead anyone, are the people that are trying to make other people think that they are breaking some law when media shifting their own property. It seems to clear up why all of those cases in Las Vegas sort of disappeared as soon as some lawyers got involved. Looks like Sound Choice knows that they don't have a leg to stand on once it gets in to a court room. The way it looks to me is you're only violating their copy right if you attach their logo to some karaoke tracks that are not Sound Choice tracks to begin with.... but then who would try to add the Sound Choice logo to another companies karaoke tracks? So much for trade dress.