Karaoke Forums

Finally you hit it exactly right!

Purely by accident I am sure.

And the Intellectual Property actually belongs to the copyright and trademark holders and the law states that they and they alone have the power to authorize copies of that product!

When you put that file onto a computer did you take it out of the container? If so then it would no longer be on the physical disc, if it is still on the physical disc then you didn't take it out of the container you made a copy of it. If it is still on the physical disc and also on your computer and the fact is you made a copy of it, then that is where the required permission comes in.

The manus SC, CB, PHM, etc. pay the intellectual property owners of the songs and lyrics to make "copies" of those songs and put them onto a CDG, correct?

By the same token would not the manus also be justified in charging us a nominal fee to make copies of their product to use in a format different from what they delivered it in as well?

Sections in blue are from the US supreme Court.

The four factors identified by Congress as especially relevant in determining whether the use was fair are: (1) the purpose and character of the use; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; (4) the effect on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. Harper & Row, Publrs. v. Nation Enters., 471 U.S. 539, 560-561 (U.S. 1985)

I believe factors one and four are most important here.

The fact that a publication was commercial as opposed to nonprofit is a separate factor that tends to weigh against a finding of fair use. "[Every] commercial use of copyrighted material is presumptively an unfair exploitation of the monopoly privilege that belongs to the owner of the copyright." Id. Quoting Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S., at 451.

COMMERCIAL USE MAY BE PRESUMPTIVELY AN UNFAIR USE, BUT THAT IS NOT THE END OF THE ANALYSIS. YOU (THUNDER) SEEM TO STOP THERE.

THAT PRESUMPTION MAY BE OVERCOME.

BACK TO THE US SUPREME COURT (PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THIS PART THUNDER)

The crux of the profit/nonprofit distinction is not whether the sole motive of the use is monetary gain but whether the user stands to profit from exploitation of the copyrighted material without paying the customary price. Harper & Row, Publrs. v. Nation Enters., 471 U.S. 539, 562 (U.S. 1985); See also Roy Export Co. Establishment v. Columbia Broadcasting System, Inc., 503 F.Supp., at 1144; 3 Nimmer § 13.05[A][1], at 13-71, n. 25.3;

A 1-1 KJ paid the customary price for the copyrighted material.

Back to the USSC:

Effect on the Market. Finally, the Act focuses on "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work." This last factor is undoubtedly the single most important element of fair use. n9 See 3 Nimmer § 13.05[A], [**2234] at 13-76, and cases cited therein. HN24"Fair use, when properly applied, is limited to copying by others which does not materially impair the marketability of the work which is copied." 1 Nimmer § 1.10[D], at 1-87. Harper & Row, Publrs. v. Nation Enters., 471 U.S. 539, 567 (U.S. 1985)


Again, A 1-1 KJ paid the customary price for the copyrighted material (CD+G discs). The only argument that a 1-1 media shift materially impairs the marketability of the work copied is the argument that the KJ who 1-1 shifted CD+G product to MP3+G will not re-purchase the same tracks as downloads or other files in MP3 format specifically for computer use in the future.


I am NOT an IP attorney and this is NOT legal advice.

What is the effect of copying on the market of karaoke? well if you want to get right down to the bottom line this thread covers it. Chartbuster (according to some) is charging KJs $199 per year to make and use copies of their product, by running without that permission and NOT paying CB for it each KJ doing so has deprived CB of their right to grant that permission and also of $199 for each year they are doing so.

So now the issue isn't piracy, but re-charging us for products we already paid for? Seems like some in here have been stating that all along.

BTW the case in question that you are pulling quotes from the defendant LOST.

So now the issue isn't piracy, but re-charging us for products we already paid for? Seems like some in here have been stating that all along.

And that changes the application of the law in that case to the issue of format/media shifting?

The facts of each case are different. It is the application of the law to the facts of each individual case that determines the outcome.

I applied the law to the facts of format/media shifting as I think it should be. A judge may decide differently. Hell, two different judges could easily decide the issue differently.

I am finished arguing with you, it is pointless.

Instead of declaring a debate pointless why not put forward an actual argument on the merits as you see them.

So far I have seen you qoute from Judical discussions (but not the actual rulings) and state this is the way it is (IMO) and when someone makes an actual arguement contrary to your position, you throw up your hands and say it is pointless.

I thought you were an attorney, it should be in your nature to argue these points to make your case!

can we go back to the original post? has anyone heard anything more about this from CB themselves?

But I will take your new line on as well.

can we go back to the original post? has anyone heard anything more about this from CB themselves?

Thank you for your interest in becoming a Chartbuster Karaoke Certified Karaoke Show Host (KJ).

Successful applicants to the program enjoy these benefits:

* Certification that your Chartbuster Karaoke library of tracks meets the standards of our commercial and media shifting policies.
* An audit of each system your KJ or hosting service operates for certification purposes.
* Your business listed in a publicly-viewable, nationwide database of certified show hosts.
* A unique presentation certificate, suitable for framing, declaring your certification.
* Permission to display the Chartbuster Karaoke certification seals on your website and promotional materials.

The annual cost for application to the program is $199 for each system that the KJ/hosting service operates. This non-refundable fee covers the cost of auditing and certifying each system. We only certify systems in the United States, and we reserve the right to refuse certification to non-qualifying applicants at our sole discretion, or to modify or discontinue the program at any time for any reason. Certifications are valid for one calendar year from the date of certification, and expire annually on that date. The fee is applicable to each system to be certified – multiple systems will each require their own certification. You must apply each year to maintain your certification.

To apply for certification, you must complete the form below in its entirety. All fields are required or your application will be rejected. You will also be asked to submit a complete song list exported from your system(s) in a comma-delimited or Microsoft Excel format, in order for your system(s) to be properly audited. You may also need a web camera and a (free) Skype account, if you do not wish or cannot afford to have your audit conducted at our offices.

If your application is accepted, you will be contacted to determine how and when your audit will be conducted, and if necessary given guidance on how to export your song list for auditing purposes. Once your application and fee has been processed, your audit will be conducted as scheduled. If your audit indicates that your system(s) meet our commercial and media-shifting policies, your application will be approved, you will be added to our national database, and granted the right to use certain materials in promoting your business as a Chartbuster Karaoke officially-certified enterprise.

To begin the application process, start by filling out the information below. When you hit “SUBMIT”, the application fee will be added to your shopping cart. You must complete the checkout process for your application to be processed.

I did not realize that anyone was asking us to replace any damaged disc, I guess I missed that one! I have many disc that I could not rip to my computer because they were damaged, so I simply don't have those songs even though I would like too.
I had some that I had made copies of because of cracks starting in the center and from experience I knew they weren't going to last long and was able to rip from the copies. I also had songs on my system that are useless because they were ripped from disc that had damage to them. What I do is simply do without those songs.
The one thing I can say is that none of my disc have received any more damage since I ripped them to the computer, how did your's get damaged after the fact? If it is a matter of storage you may need to look at another method of storing them!




Not a word but I haven't asked anyone directly either, however I will send David an E-mail with the link to this thread and ask him directly what they are looking for?

Decoding Thunder for spectators:


WHAT HE SAID

WHAT HE REALLY MEANS
"I'm smarter than you... neener, neener, neener!"

WHAT HE SAID

Jian,

You warn me for violations of the TOS so I tone it all down, yet you let this stuff continue on a daily basis?

I have stopped responding to this sort of crap because when I do respond suddenly I find myself banned.

I am holding myself to the confines of discussion without bringing personality or personal attacks into this board and up to this point I have simply ignored the dogs that are nipping at my heels simply because they are more like a bunch of chiwawas, more annoying than anything else.

You issued a warning to me for this statement

I would rather not be assumed guilty until I prove myself innocent to whomever wants to search me for whatever reason they care to make up.
And I'd rather not pay to prove my innocence anytime somebody feels like leveling a broad accusation.
And I'd certainly not want to pay anybody to not make accusations in the first place.
I just don't have enough money or time to keep up where this seems to be going.

Substitute SC with Chartbuster and you will see the end result.

Simply, it's not allowing any of these Karaoke Companies access to your business.

Hasn't SC been conducting Audits?

Who did you expect was next.

Besides, where is the request for THUNDER's lengthy diatribe explanation where the only time Chartbuster is mentioned is the POST SUBJECT?