Karaoke Forums

So, in summary Sound Choice is selling all of the songs that they were sued for selling by the origional artists again. All those Eagles songs and other songs from difficult artists that sued SC can now be downloaded from the web or obtained in "other" ways and SC will say ok we won't sue you for them because you paid the extortion.

A big portion of the SC list is songs that are beyond the production run that they were authorized to sell by the origional artists. So this is nothing more of having the DJs break the law by downloading the songs, and Sound Choice bringing in the profit for products they are not allowed to sell!

Somehow this goes far beyond any of the many shady deals and extortion SC has been involved in over the years.

They seem to have some kind of treatment of legalities as a small child, I hope some artist takes all their money for the shady deals here. The company made some great karaoke tracks but this is just silly.

Yes I am proud that I am certified with no regrets!!!!! No, you haven't been screwed at all. You are just failing greatly to understand, you are free to use your discs at your shows (Commercial setting) all night long forever and ever, never being subject to any suits ever (get what I said ever) as long as you don't media shift to the hard drive of your computer. When SC sold the discs there was only a percentage that chose on their own to shift and SC was dealing as was every other legitimate U.S. karaoke producing discs. The technology has surpassed the product and the producers had to get up to speed with the publishers and the hosting industry and their (SC) solution was to require all legit sifters to get permission and most refused and then here we are. fast forward to 2015, Kurt seeing little compliance and decides to accept that most have shifted and he is just seeking another way for the legit operators to come forward since they did not do as he asked. Perhaps, you have failed to acknowledge one thing the discs you possess with SC material is still actual property of SC. You only own the plastic and have product attached that is and will (according to us law regarding commercial use of works) always be SC works and hold right to limit use. I never said that you were a pirate however in the spirit of the action you could be because you shifted (without permission) to another media. Like I have told others, don't agree with the new program, just use the discs in you player along with your software and life will go on. One of the most modern Karaoke setups for computer and will run discs through the cd player is Compuhost ($179). It is a great program and will solve that complaint you have. I can help you overcome your objections or perhaps you just ant to be like most and just keep complaining.

It is amazing to me how the majority here is quick to bash the minority (the certified and minimize them). So very grade school and frankly very narrow minded.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Rumbolt, I'm not bashing you.

I agreed with the Certification program, and intended to do it as soon as I built my new system--right now I'm disc-based. If you look at the 'Contacting Sound Choice' thread, you'll see that I was one of the folks sticking up for Sound Choice's right to recover their lost IP, even if it posed an incidental cost or inconvenience to legitimate KJs. I took a fair amount of grief from other posters for that.

You're overlooking the simple fact that Sound Choice is keeping me from making normal use of property that I fairly purchased. It isn't just my opinion that it's normal use, it's the standard of the industry, and indeed the opinion of Sound Choice until this month.

The HELP program is not a replacement for the certification program, as you're implying. The certification program charged nothing for reasonable use of the discs, which SC has acknowledged by its own statements and policies. The small charge for the audit was a reasonable cost for legitimate jocks to separate themselves from pirates and avoid the inconvenience of being named in litigation. The media-shifting of discs has gone overnight from a free, normal use to a very expensive ongoing service, without the addition of a single benefit.

So, yes, I'm getting screwed. Karaoke isn't a big part of my business (unlike you, I won't soon be walking around in my "Proudly Certified Sound Choice KJ" T-shirt and ball cap, because I actually have a life). I can simply quit using karaoke, donate my system and library to charity, and not be materially affected by it, but I don't like being cheated and I don't like being shaken down.

And unlike you, I sympathize with the people whose livelihoods are being affected by this scheme. People who support it by paying the HELP fees are behaving unethically, in my opinion, because they're further enabling both the HELP program and the piracy.

slowclap


My biggest regret in life is I wasn't able to rally the KJ's of the world against this nonsense. Here I am, back in IT, no longer KJ'ing (sans the occasional party I do for friends) making more money than I ever have in life...

And I still feel this void...

So according to Sound Choice, media shifting matters (but not according to many others in the law field). But according to nearly everyone in the legal field, paying royalties to songwriters and getting approval of songwriters to make karaoke versions is required in the US, bus SC does not seem to mind that law very much. Hence all the lawsuits SC has suffered and the numerous songs that they had to move to out of print.

Fact of the matter is the shift in SC income approach was made because they probably have been told they cant sell most of their catalog anymore, and it is not worth the effort to re-negotiate or negotiate for the first time with hundreds of songwriters.

This is why I continue to urge ANYONE who is thinking about this program to seek legal counsel BEFORE they do it. For one thing, they do not even have a catalog any longer. It was sold to Stingray. They have a few songs they made after the sale. Secondly, this is over a dead product. Take all the information to a qualified lawyer and pay to get some sound advice. It may cost you now but it could save you a bunch down the road.

This is, at best, uninformed speculation, so it's time to inform you.

As has been explained numerous times in this forum, SC actually has a strong record of obtaining licenses and paying royalties--one of the strongest in the industry, in fact. It's true that SC has been sued a handful of times. When you consider that SC has, in its history, produced more than 16,500 unique karaoke tracks, it's only natural that there would be instances in which disputes arise.

What you don't see in the record is a single judgment against SC for copyright infringement. The reason for that is simple: Most of the lawsuits involve disputes over royalties, in an industry (music publishing in particular) that does not deal well with formal paperwork. Most licenses begin as handshake deals and many are not formally concluded until they are nearly expired. That's the nature of the world we operate in, mostly because music publishers deal with thousands (if not millions, in some cases) of properties with licensing across numerous industries, not just karaoke. If they required formal paperwork to be completed before use began, they would grind to a halt. The absence of formal paperwork leads to disputes. The purpose of the lawsuit is to force these details to be worked out. SC has always been able to resolve those disputes on reasonable terms, and there is every reason to believe that will happen again.

The far-and-away #1 reason for moving a title out of print is that it is not profitable to continue selling it. It costs money to keep licenses up because of minimum royalty requirements. A title that doesn't sell well enough to justify maintaining the license will get dropped. That doesn't mean it wasn't properly licensed. In fact, dropping titles that don't sell well enough to justify maintaining the license is an act that's respectful of IP rights.

Although you have a lot of posts on this forum as a whole, I haven't seen you post much in this sub-forum, so I'm happy to give you the benefit of doubt as to the true facts. But you can consider yourself informed now, and hopefully you won't repeat these untruths in the future.

Before you do anything drastic, I'd encourage you to check your private messages. As I've posted elsewhere, we are reopening the certification program in a few days (as soon as we can get the infrastructure built).

Harrington Law:

We will see what happens with the Sony vs Slep-tone case currently on the docket in Tennesse. Probably will end up with another undisclosed settlement.

Companies like Sony don't only care about winning judgments, they would prefer settlements and cash, undisclosed if needed. Then you can continue to repeat the mantra - Slep-Tone never lost a judgement. Why continue a lost case to the bitter end when its about money.

What I find funny here is that EVEN Pro-SC people are pissed off about this latest move by SC. They are hurt 1:1 KJs, and forcing other KJs to go backwards technologically. Exactly what perk are you getting from Kurt Slep to be his lap dog??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Funny that you brought this up. 6 or 7 of my local colleagues are already playing all SC tracks (when allowed) from players. In fairness, these are long-timers who started out disc-based and have no problem with it. Most didn't even have to buy new players.

The newer hosts who have always been PC based will either have to learn some new skills or be happy paying $2,400.oo per year ON TOP of the purchase price that they layed out for all of their discs - or take SC/Phoenix to court either singly or as a class action to put an end to their newest income model. No other options.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

One wonders how a case like that would play out. One also wonder if perhaps a R.I.C.O. case could be brought against them, since this whole thing is no different than mobsters running around getting protection money from store clerks.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

So, despite what the record actually shows, you're sticking with your version of "everybody knows what really happened."

OK.

Harrington, do you really think we can expect Sony to waste their time with a lawsuit if they would not win a case or settlement. Sony knows which songs they have the rights to, and which one's SC was selling without proper permission. The only thing the court case will decide if it goes that far is the amount of money SC will pay.

I bet from your own cases for Sound Choice vs Pirate KJs, most of the cases either end in dismissals or settlements too. Not judgements.


You postulated previously that it would take $40,000 to buy a full set of Sound Choice songs, and the new arrangement is a great deal.

But seriously, why would we think it is a great deal if you are a KJ who has already spent close to $40,000 buying most of SC's disks? Yes I have bought all but 18 of the SoundChoice Spotlight series, The Foundations, Bricks, and a good number of the star series.

Sound Choice is just engaged in another shakedown. Why shouldn't we be upset.

But I respect your loyalty to your employer.

This photo should show why I am upset with a monthly shakedown fee.

Sony will actually have to prove that it owns the songs it has sued on. Its related company EMI had a difficult time actually proving ownership, so they had to pare the song list down by something like 75%.

What you don't seem to understand is that SC had licenses from Sony and EMI, and Sony and EMI accepted royalties under those licenses. For products made abroad, SC's vendor had licenses from MCPS, of which Sony and EMI are members, and MCPS accepted royalties from SC's vendor for the licensed products.

What's plain is that neither Sony nor EMI conducted any substantial pre-suit investigation of these matters. (EMI filed suit a few days after they issued SC a new license!) Both of them have sued Global Music Services, a separate company owned by Kurt Slep, for copyright infringement. The problem is that Global's business for the last few years has been importing and selling karaoke hardware. Global's hardware has no storage and thus no ability to contain any copyrighted works. So there is no way that EMI or Sony could have reasonably determined, based on evidence in hand, that Global had committed copyright infringement. Yet they filed suits for copyright infringement.



The HELP licenses are not directed at any KJ who has made such a substantial investment in discs. If you want to use media-shifted copies of your discs, you should obtain a certification, which we are reopening. Or, if you'd like a trademark license so that you can operate with multiple systems, then perhaps a HELP license would be worth it (rather than buying a second set of discs).

"The HELP liscence is not directed at a KJ who has made a substantial investment in disks"

It just provides an easy (and possibly legal) way to give our competitors a chance to buy a equivelent or better song set for a tiny fraction of what it cost us.

We have to pay for all the songs we bought out of what we charge, now our competitors can undercut us because their songs cost them far less.

Your disc represent a sunk cost. (You can probably sell them for decent money on the secondary market if you're so inclined.) From an accounting perspective, taking amortization and cost recovery into account, it might seem unfair, but the reality is that because you don't have the additional monthly cost, your marginal cost to put on one show is lower, all else being equal, which keeps you competitive.

Further reality: If we weren't doing this, these competitors would have the same "equivalent or better song set" and not have any additional monthly cost. Would you rather these operators have to pay, or not have to pay? If it's the former, your complaints are misdirected.

Even further reality: If we weren't suing people for infringement, there would be NO ONE doing so, and there would be no one to complain to.

Dr. Fred - WOW! Nice collection! !!

Well you don't have to be upset anymore, certifications are opening up again, so you can pay a one time fee and be done with the whole matter for as long as you decide to host.

That being said, think of what an awesome rig you would be able to duplicate as many times as you like from those discs if you were so inclined to start multi-rigging.