Karaoke Forums

well here is my take on HELP, for what is worth because i have no stake in it.the program is not available in canada.

As a geneneral concept tho , i have no problem with it. However if it were available in canada i would not sign up unless stingray did become involved

anything else i could say would be pointless and likely argued over ad nauseum.

your mileage may very

What is your take considering the entire karaoke channel library (stingray) IS included?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

It would still be too expensive, especially for a single rigger like me. I would have to work 7 days a week for that to be worth it. Not to mention all the work it would take to acquire all that music at the bit rate required.
Sorry, but I have a nine year old son that I like to spend time with. I would rather live without the brand.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Companies don't set pricing based upon the work/life balance needs of consumers. They set pricing based on what the market will bear. Sound Choice/PEP moved away from selling to consumers and hobbiest KJ's several years ago.

It sounds like you are making a personal choice to only work X nights a week that doesn't make the price accessible to you. There are a lot of other people out there that work karaoke as a full time, sole source of income career at 5-7 nights a week. That is who HELP and for that matter the GEM are primarily targeted at.

I look at it this way though......

If I were to use HELP for a system, I would use having essentially the entire Sound Choice library as 1) a marketing tool and 2) a means of justifying a higher rate.

If you can't get a higher rate under any circumstances because the market won't support it, then.....move. Or......accept that the conditions of your market put services like KaraokeCloud or HELP. out of reach. But don't blame the pricing of the service itself because there are a lot of other people that work enough at rates that support the price structure.

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-Chris

This IS my sole income. I make enough for what I need. Plus I am about to take on a second show on Saturdays. Same venue as my Saturday night. It's going to be a family show, that I am going to let my girlfriend run. Around here, SC is not a selling point. The owners here don't care about SC. I had a customer come in last night, and she heard me say I don't use much SC. She asked why, and I told her that I do not like their policies. She sang a couple songs, (long rotation), and said she will definitely be back. I have just a few people who know SC, that come to my shows INSTEAD of going down the road to the guy with the loaded SC drive. Maybe in YOUR area SC is still all the rage, but around here, nobody cares.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The most widely accepted definition of the word LEGAL is "of or pertaining to the law"; I also believe it can be agreed that the most common understanding of its use is pertaining to governmental law. One of the most egregious uses I have encountered in recent memory is in this arena. Randomly changing policies and operational procedures in order to create more corporate profit does not make a particular act more or less LEGAL.

It has been stated in this thread that if one follows certain guidelines and makes certain payments, that their activity would no longer be considered piracy BY THOSE THAT HOLD THE RIGHTS...This does not make the means by which the material would be obtained any more LEGAL than it was before, and it even goes as far as encouraging interested parties to participate in ilLEGAL activity to secure said material. I can not imagine that it would set very well with a given civil judge if they were aware that a company was making policy attempting to make legitimate goods out of the same material for which they are making counterfeit claims...

Two companies have made a mutually beneficial agreement. They can call it an absolution of piracy or change of policy; however, do not let the existence of such an agreement alone be the basis of a determination of its LEGALITY.

legal, of or pertaining to the law.
to copy the discs you need permission of the rights holder. that is the law.
what the law does not state is what the rights holders can ask of you to get that permission.
they are allowed to sak anything they want from you, without doing that, you are illegal.
but as has been stated in here before on other subjects, just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The point is that they are trying to legitimize, among other methods, an acquisition of material by illegal means, which is a focus of their own series of lawsuits. The end does not justify the means...

Singers still care about SC. I know a few kj's around here quit carrying the brand - I know because I have gained some of their lost customers looking for their favorite brand.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

YOUR singers, is what you should have said. Not here. I get people from other shows that HAVE SC, and they like my shows better. They are fine singing off SBI, and the other UKs. I am even replacing my old SGBs with UKs as I need to. They fully understand when I tell them I won't buy SC because I do not like their policies and practices.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I'm just curious... Let's say I'm one of those customers that ask you, why you don't have Sound Choice. Aside from "I don't like their policies", what exactly do you explain to them?

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

not just my show, pretty much this entire region. I have newbies that specifically ask for SC, they aren't my singers (yet) until they find out I have them. Again new singers coming to my show I said BECAUSE some other hosts quit carrying it. That tells me something. Has nothing to do with MY singers - although 'my' singers say when they go to other shows, they often they don't like the versions they carry when it isn't the SC version they prefer.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If they ask, I tell them that SC sues people who already paid for their discs, for shifting those discs to computer. I tell them that SC charges a fee to do an audit of our CDG collections, and that is something I do not believe is proper. I tell them that I only use brands that I CAN use on computer without any problems. That seems to satisfy their curiosity. I then tell them that if they have their own discs I will gladly play them. I only have a few people who bring their own. The rest are fine with what I have, and what I buy. I have some REALLY good singers, and they come back week after week.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Very well said. I suppose you should expect to be labeled as having an agenda....

if a host is losing singers because they don't have SC, they should not be in the business to begin with. any host that is dependent on having a specific brand of karaoke to stay busy is not a host, but a jukebox.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I suppose that in forums like this, and the plethora of other forums I visit (ranging from subjects like action movies and zip lining and dozens of things in between, one can be expected to be labeled by people who feel it necessary to have one. In this case, and many others, I try to define my own "label" by making it clear that I am a "consumer advocate". This does not mean I always side against companies; without them there is nothing to consume. It does not mean that consumers should just sit back and take things when companies take stances that appear as if they feel that they can write their own laws and try to operate within them...

I agree, but am not going to discount a new customer even if they are coming in for a specific brand preference.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

@ Alan and Smoothedge69... My general opinion of this is, most people going out to a Karaoke Show don't really care about the politics (all these legality issues and (what can be construed as) additional hassles which specific manufacturers may be bringing upon KJs). They just want to go out and either sing or listen to their friends sing. Most of these people don't really want/care to listen to (what can be perceived as) the KJ's Sob Story.

Also (IMO), most people who come up to the KJ and ask for a song from a specific brand, and the KJ says he/she doesn't have it (either that song on that specific brand, or that entire brand), they might mope a little, but will try to find something else to sing. I won't deny that some Singers get upset that a KJ doesn't carry their preference in song brands, but most of them will make do with what the KJ has (and that's the end of it). There may be some (like myself) who come in with their own songs (either on discs or on a flash drive), but whether the KJ is willing (or able) to accept that is for a whole different topic thread. Very few (again, IMO) will make that a deal breaker, where they just leave and vow never to return.

Smoothedge69, more to the point of Alan's question, approximately how many people have come to your show and either:
1. asked for a SC version of their song request,
and/or
2. asked you why you don't carry more SC tracks.

I am only about 15 to 20 miles from Smoothe and I get a couple of SC requests every night. I play lots of customer CD's every show. Some contain SC material, but I will only play the ones that I own, and then I play mine.

I have a very small TV (3 inch) that I can see what version their song is without actually interupting the show.

I'm in So. Calif. and of the old majors, the most requested Manufacturer for me is DK. In the last 7 years I can count the number of singers who have specifically requested SC on one hand, and even then half of them ask for either DK or SC (no real preference as long as it's one of the two).

As far as question 2 is concerned, that's easy. Since SC no longer produces music (and hasn't for years) and because of the forced unrealistically high resale price of most SC discs (due to the lawsuits), I cannot afford to spend $25 or more (depending on the disc), for one song.

While there are exceptions to this (i.e. Chris A. who was willing and able to pour a ton of money into discs when he was just starting out), most Legal KJ's who have just started out in the last few years, have not had SC as a reasonably priced option. Because of this their SC library is going to be nil to nonexistent. Much easier to do as Smooth did and start with a couple of high volume though mediocre quality sets to get started and then replace titles with SBI, Zoom, Karaoke Version, etc as needed and if you should happen across a reasonably priced SC disc or two, then even better (assuming the SBI, etc... titles aren't better, which is rapidly becoming the rule rather than the exception these days).